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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#40776: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:37:39 AM

[up][up]Once you make it past the Escherthulhu Cubism, there's a crazy amount of stuff in there.

All of it WEIRD.

edited 12th Aug '15 7:38:09 AM by ultimatepheer

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40777: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:38:23 AM

[up]4x

Speaking of Jojo there need to be more protagonists whose special skill is their ability to troll people. Also I'm stunned by the utter lack of The First Avenger/Battle Tendency crossovers so far. I mean Joseph was this close to chilling with Bucky at the bottom of a ravine.

edited 12th Aug '15 8:00:08 AM by AlleyOop

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40778: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:39:51 AM

[up][up][up]True, that's how most villains in the MCU work. And in comic book in general. But perhaps it is time to think out of the box.

edited 12th Aug '15 7:40:05 AM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40779: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:53:08 AM

In Iron Man 2, for all its myriad of faults, Whiplash was more of an existential threat than a physical one.

He broke the monopoly Tony had on the arc reactor, his promise to keep the world safe by being the only one with his tech.

And then he exploded.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40780: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:13:11 AM

The movie didn't back up the idea that Cross has been driven crazy by Pym Particles well at all, honestly. It's a Voodoo Shark. It implies he's been exposing himself to the Particles but he hasn't. He doesn't know how to shrink a person without turning them into a blood spat. If he'd been shrinking himself, he wouldn't be crazy, he'd be dead.

Them trying to sell Cross as a supervillain also didn't work as well as it did Stane - Yellowjacket's fight with Ant-Man came off less like a moment the movie was building up to and more superfluous, especially since it involves dropping the characters he actually had a feud with to go after Scott's daughter because evil.

This. Stane, meanwhile, was only a "supervillain" out of desperation. He was beaten the moment Pepper delivered the evidence against him into S.H.I.E.L.D. custody and the rest of the climax is his panicked attempt to grab his ball and flee. His actions make sense because he has a clearly defined objective: grab the prototype Iron Monger and get the f*ck out of Dodge.

He takes the time to go after Tony because he needs Tony's arc reactor to power the Iron Monger since his scientists have never been able to reproduce the technology. While he clearly savored the opportunity, it's not just petty spite; he has an actual reason to attack Tony's home and, in fact, could not achieve his objective without doing so.

Similarly, once he suits up in the Iron Monger and tears through the Agents sent to apprehend him, he takes the time to try and kill Pepper because she's right there. Would he have taken the time to search the city for her? Probably not.

The final altercation between Stark and Stane happens because Stane wants to leave and Stark wants Stane not to leave. The pair have managed to boil their conflict into a classic superhero climax: Stark is attempting to apprehend Stane for the numerous crimes he is guilty of and Stane is attempting to not be apprehended and escape with his awesome new WMD.

My problem with Stane is that he was so sleazy that I honestly didn't get how Tony could trust him for one minute. That's why Alexander Pierce was so much better in The Winter Soldier. His role was kind of similar, but he played the concerned leader so perfectly that I had started to doubt my assessment that he is the most likely villain.

Two reasons: because his father did, and because Tony himself isn't exactly a paragon of virtue when we meet him.

The Tony we meet at the start isn't crooked but he is willfully ignorant. He's riding on his father's righteousness from WWII: I make the world a better place by building weapons of mass destruction that keep America and its interests safe from harm, just like my father did.

Prior to his blind date with a shrapnel-filled irony bomb, Tony brings up his father in that context twice; first when justifying the military-industrial complex to the blonde reporter, then again when delivering his speech at his demonstration of the Jericho. He doesn't really understand his industry and can't talk about it without immediately defaulting to, "Because dad."

Tony's a kid trying to follow in his father's footsteps. This means Stane gets a certain benefit of doubt because, as his father's partner, there's an immediate emotional attachment there. His dad trusted Stane so he trusts Stane. He probably knew Stane when he was a child.

Furthremore, he came into the company fresh out of college and was expected to be the next Howard Stark, which is a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Stane almost certainly ingratiated himself by helping Tony manage the business; by the time we catch up to his life, overreliance on Stane for business matters is one of Tony's flaws, as we see he doesn't even go to the board meetings. If he did, Stane wouldn't have been able to convince the board to file the injunction against him without him knowing about it.

So here we have this college kid who emerges into his father's corporate world, bright-eyed but having no clue what to do, when his father's best and most trusted advocate steps in and goes, "Hey kid, don't worry about it, I'll help you figure things out. It'll be just like it was with your old man." I'd be surprised if Stane wasn't a role model to Tony, at least to some extent.

Which ultimately makes it hard for Tony to hold it against him that he's sleazy because Tony's kind of sleazy too. At the start of the movie when they're bantering about the pajamas, they're two peas in a pod. Tony didn't know Stane was selling weapons to terrorists but he kind of didn't want to know. He trusted Stane, he rode on the self-esteem bump of being a BIG HERO like his dad, and he dismissed out of hand anything that might shatter his shiny, golden worldview until the undeniable evidence was right in front of his face.

edited 12th Aug '15 8:15:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#40781: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:13:17 AM

As far as I'm aware, all of the Jo Jo's main villains have powers that not only are... more powerful than the main character's, but also supposedly makes them impossible to beat. However, I've only watched the anime so far, and even then I didn't finish the last season yet (I haven't liked Stardust Crusaders as much as I liked the first two Parts, even if I had a few complaints to make about those. I heard it gets better, but without an official announcement for parts 4 and beyond, I don't feel that motivated to finish it soon).

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#40782: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:14:09 AM

On the whole Cross thing and Ant-Man rogue gallery, I am amazed among all the other characters Darren Cross in the movie is combine with (Yellowjacket and Ultron) nobody (at least to my knowledge of visiting this page) mention how similar he is to the villain Egghead. Both are villainous scientist who use their research for evil and has a major grudge against Hank Pym and would go through insane lengths to get revenge (also they are both bald).

Visually and personality wise he is just like that bad guy.

If the movie does get a sequel, it would be interesting to see how they adapt his rogue gallery(?). Most of them seem like low level foes who seem good for merely one off battles, so maybe some greater force that give these criminals powers/tech to commit crime. Really wish AIM is still around, they could of been good foe for Ant-Man to face in the sequels given how the group represents everything Hank didn't want to use his science for and how their level of science is a good way to explore the Quantum Realm even more.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#40783: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:19:12 AM

[up][up] Stardust Crusaders is more episodic in its story compare to the two other parts. It really is just enjoying the crazyness of the whole thing rather then the plot. The second half is basically where the story becomes more coherent and the enemies at least are presented as more of a threat then usual.

. . . Wait, why the hell are we talking about Jo Jo in a Mar- oh yeah, villains with weak sounding powers that ended up surprising dangerous.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40784: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:37:52 AM

Cross was involved in the testing of knock-off Pym particles and the illegal murder use of knock-off Pym particles without the use of safety gear.

Not enough exposure to shrink him but still exposure.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#40785: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:40:33 AM

Y'know, folks keep bringing up that Winter Soldier renders Agent Carter pointless but no one ever seems to bring up how any prequel with Howard Stark in it means waiting for the inevitable car accident and Stane fucking up everything he worked towards.

edited 12th Aug '15 8:40:55 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40786: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:41:55 AM

Also, Anton Vanko.

Seriously, I will be terribly disappointed if the show ends without showing us the falling out between Stark and Vanko that made Iron Man 2 happen.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#40787: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:43:00 AM

[up][up]It's not too bad as a theme: Nothing is incorruptible.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#40788: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:43:28 AM

[up][up]Yeah, Howard Stark's life ends in a torrent of self-sabotage and everyone pissing on his legacy. And yet no one seems to have a problem with him popping up.

Almost like there's another, dumber reason to argue against an Agent Carter show that people are trying to hide. Hrm. Hrrrrm.

[up]Seconded.

edited 12th Aug '15 8:44:18 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40789: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:51:58 AM

Well, obviously, Hydra can't just come out and say they're the ones trying to bring down the show. Their reconstruction won't be revealed for another few decades.

edited 12th Aug '15 8:52:21 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40790: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:58:09 AM

Offtopic: Just read the Jojo manga. It's not a particularly difficult read regardless of how much there is, and scans for just about everything but Part 5 are now good. I guarantee if you marathon it you will finish it in the time it takes for them to announce the next part. You'll be surprised how quickly things move along. And yes, most of us agree that Stardust Crusaders is one of the weakest parts, including those of us who started long before the anime.

Ontopic: I wouldn't mind if later seasons of Agent Carter moved forward in time past the one-shot. There's only so many new settings Peggy can travel to keep things fresh. If it's going to be a long-runner not being able to move forward in time is unnecessarily restricting.

edited 12th Aug '15 8:58:51 AM by AlleyOop

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#40791: Aug 12th 2015 at 8:59:01 AM

Captain America: Civil War Rumor: What “International Incident” Triggers the Sokovia Accords? http://www.themarysue.com/captain-america-civil-war-rumor-international-incident-sokovia-accords/

Oh god how I wish that isn't what happens. Age of Ultron's events was more than enough to set up the plot for this. I really don't think a retelling of the comic book's kick-off is necessary.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40792: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:02:56 AM

I imagine they think leaving it to Sokovia would be too much Continuity Lock-Out or unnecessary exposition, even though most of the people who care have already seen AOU. Anyway I'm not a fan of this particular rumor as I think it continues Marvel's problem of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character when it comes to their villains.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#40793: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:13:26 AM

[up][up]The only similarity between live action Civil War rumor and the actuality of comicbook Civil War is an explosion that hurts some civilians. Everything in these context are way different. Nirto wouldn't have exploded if the New Warriors werent acting stupid nor would he have been that powerful if Damage Control didn't exist. In live action Crossbones is a death seeker so it makes sense for him to be suicidal, meanwhile Scarlet Witch never trained for such situations despite her experience in Age of Ultron. Captain America always tries to restrain the threat rather than smack it head on like Namorita and his instructions never failed before like this, so it's a shocker. The rumor sounds like the incident was beyond the Avenger's control, which is very different from the source material. If it was a replication of Civil War then it would sound more like the Russos are throwing around an idiot ball

edited 12th Aug '15 9:41:34 AM by xbimpy

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#40794: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:20:45 AM

I can't get the spoiler tags in that article to work. What supposedly happens?

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#40795: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:23:31 AM

[up][up][up] There is nothing being wasted in that rumor. Frank Grillo has a multi contract deal that is still confirmed unless noted otherwise. Also the majority of rouges used thus far do not warrant another appearance. They served their purpose and it never helped they were nobodies or low ranks to begin with; in other words these aren't people I would care to read about in even comics beyond the boom, bang, and pow they perform. In live action what reason would A, B, and C have to contribute more towards the MCU? I think for many it's not much. However, the ones they can recur are put on hold (Red Skull, Abomination, Leader, Justin Hammer, and Mandarin).

Overall yea it would be nice to see someone show up again because they were crazy, but w/e. Loose some gain some.

Then on the smaller screen they can't afford to knock off each rouge in one episode, so people like White Hall get their own arc or whatever is considered lengthily screen time dedicated for a villain (on the sliver screen villains almost always have far less screen time than their hero counterparts).

edited 12th Aug '15 9:46:30 AM by xbimpy

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#40796: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:24:35 AM

[up][up] The rumor says a wild Crossbone appears who has a bomb strapped to him that goes off when Scarlet Witch fails to trap him

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40797: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:31:48 AM

a wild Crossbone appears

Ultra Ball! Ultra Ball!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40798: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:55:13 AM

I am usually against prequels because they rarely add anything to any story. But there are exceptions. For example, I really look forward to Fantastic Beast. And Agent Carter? Totally worth it! There is so much which can be explored through her show.

The argument that we know what will eventually happen to Peggy is pretty idiotic, because the only thing we actually know is that she will be the director of SHIELD, that she will have a family and that she will eventually die of old age. That's it. I certainly never watch a show which is named after the title character, holding my breath out of fear that he could die (and I can think of only one show in which it actually happened...it only lasted a season after it).

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40799: Aug 12th 2015 at 9:56:41 AM

The purpose of a story is not the destination, but the journey.

[up] Buffy died twice!

edited 12th Aug '15 9:57:08 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40800: Aug 12th 2015 at 10:03:20 AM

Grillo confirmed his character will still be around? That's good to hear. Not that it helped Quicksilver or Stane.

[up]Watch/read Jojo tongue.

edited 12th Aug '15 10:04:15 AM by AlleyOop


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