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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#40751: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:06:13 PM

I liked AOU Ultron.

He was hilarious, and kinda evil too.

Yeah, his motivations needed work (since he couldn't stick to one, but considering how unstable he was, I'm not surprised he was changing his mind every 20 seconds. I mean, he was kinda like a kid.

Plus, he was funny. That makes me forgive a lot.

Oh, and I liked Thor The Dark World too, since everyone wants to rag on that all the time.

I will fight all of you over this.

One Strip! One Strip!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40752: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:06:59 PM

He was on the shallow side, and the movie apparently cut a scene where they discuss how the Pym particles can drive you insane without a suit on. I think he's on the same level as Obadiah Stane though. A decent villain for what the film was.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#40753: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:07:49 PM

i personally liked obadiah stane a bit more, but yeah he's the same type of character.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#40754: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:10:30 PM

Personally, I liked Cross more than Stane, simply for the former being more ruthless and cold-hearted in his actions. Plus, the Yellowjacket armor is far cooler than the Iron Monger. tongue

edited 11th Aug '15 9:10:39 PM by LDragon2

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#40755: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:13:38 PM

The film may have teased at Eternity while Scott was in the Miniverse.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#40756: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:24:37 PM

Cross is almost the exact same character as Stane, except Cross actions come off as less organic (I suppose because he's being driven off the deep end by the Pym Particles, but the movie doesn't really back it up well) and is less good of a foil for the hero.

Them trying to sell Cross as a supervillain also didn't work as well as it did Stane - Yellowjacket's fight with Ant-Man came off less like a moment the movie was building up to and more superfluous, especially since it involves dropping the characters he actually had a feud with to go after Scott's daughter because evil.

Or in short, Cross comes off as a poor man's Stane (or Hammer or even Killian - Marvel's made a habit of this character type), which is actually totally fine because the movie isn't really framed as "Cross' philosophy vs Scott's," and he isn't a personal enemy to Scott until the story suddenly tries to make him one. However, I do wish the movie had played up the comparing and contrast between Cross and Hope more, and had a little bit more of the foil-ing between Cross and Hank.

edited 11th Aug '15 9:30:17 PM by KnownUnknown

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40757: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:35:19 PM

I enjoyed Crosstron alone for how much he crossed the line twice. Slaughtered adorable lambs FTW!

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#40758: Aug 11th 2015 at 9:52:25 PM

for me it just comes down to the fact that stane is jeff bridges, who gave it a pretty awesome performance.

i'll give cross props for liquefying that one guy though, that was stone cold.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#40759: Aug 11th 2015 at 10:02:32 PM

It's the performance that makes Cross work - it's not an especially meaty role, but the actor (I don't know his name, sorry) gave it all he had, and it paid off.

Oh God! Natural light!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#40760: Aug 11th 2015 at 10:21:22 PM

Cross works precisely because of how unhinged he is, the fun thing of his character is watching the character's proggressive Sanity Slippage as the movie goes on and on until the climax which he is in full Ax-Crazy mode and butchering everything on his path.

His massive Daddy Issues also help to flesh him out more, and you can actually feel a bit sad for him when he expresses such resentment for Pym abandoning him.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40761: Aug 11th 2015 at 10:53:42 PM

He went after Cassie because he had a hate-on for Scott.

And he had a hate-on for Scott because Scott a) blew up everything and b) was trusted with the Ant-Man suit when Pym wouldn't even confirm that it existed with Cross.

He's yelling stuff at Scott in the final battle that basically amounts to jealousy jealousy I'm jealous at your perceived relationship with Hank.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#40762: Aug 11th 2015 at 11:07:32 PM

The actor is Corey Stoll. BTW.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#40763: Aug 11th 2015 at 11:14:18 PM
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#40764: Aug 12th 2015 at 12:49:42 AM

I don't know if I found Stane all that great a villain, for the odd reason that Jeff Bridges is too good in the role. As in, he's so good at playing this "cool old uncle" type of character, that when he's inevitably revealed to be a villain, it's disappointing. It's not an unexpected twist, but the character ceases to be much fun to watch the instant he's revealed to be evil.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#40765: Aug 12th 2015 at 12:51:09 AM

i don't know i honestly felt that he was pretty chilling and very believable as a sociopath. i didn't find him less entertaining after the twist at all.

but with that said i'd never say he was a super great villain or anything.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40766: Aug 12th 2015 at 1:14:05 AM

I thought Bridges was great because of just how sleazy and charming he could be at the same time.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40767: Aug 12th 2015 at 1:22:52 AM

My problem with Stane is that he was so sleazy that I honestly didn't get how Tony could trust him for one minute. That's why Alexander Pierce was so much better in The Winter Soldier. His role was kind of similar, but he played the concerned leader so perfectly that I had started to doubt my assessment that he is the most likely villain.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#40768: Aug 12th 2015 at 2:55:09 AM

Captain America: Civil War Rumor: What “International Incident” Triggers the Sokovia Accords?

http://www.themarysue.com/captain-america-civil-war-rumor-international-incident-sokovia-accords/

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40769: Aug 12th 2015 at 2:58:31 AM

About Antman's Rogues Gallery, Pym actually does have an Arch-Enemy in the comic. Problem is, said nemesis is Egghead, a bald Mad Scientist... and that's it. The YMMV page makes a good job at describing how the writers never were capable of making him a serious villain^^

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#40770: Aug 12th 2015 at 3:09:27 AM

At least Iron Man's rouges in live action adapt to modern times lol. Controller Titanium Man and Crimson Dynamo etc are all stuck in the past so much they no longer stand as a threat for Tony. Even Living Laser is laughed upon

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#40771: Aug 12th 2015 at 3:20:57 AM

Pym has Porcupine Scarlet Beetle Rrgg King of the Spiderman Dr. Nemesis Paraman De Mare the Yellowjacket the Magician Ultron etc.

Scott really just has the Cross family Blake Odd John and a few people from the Mircoverse.

edited 12th Aug '15 3:23:18 AM by xbimpy

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40772: Aug 12th 2015 at 6:58:01 AM

Its sort of hard to come up with decent villains for a shrinking hero.

When he was Giant-Man you could at least give him tough guys to punch.

And I think he had Black Knight as a villain too but he wandered over to the Masters of Evil and then got his ass killed by Iron Man.

What makes a good villain? I don't really know. A physical threat, an intellectual threat, an existential threat?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#40773: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:27:52 AM

Somebody so evil yet magnificent that your hatred of them is only topped by your respect to their skill?

Or maybe turning your hand into a flower that then becomes a squirrel that murders multiple nazi soldiers at once. I dunno.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40774: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:29:07 AM

In my book they can make the whole next movie about a rescue mission in the microverse. Isn't it interesting enough to explore that?

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40775: Aug 12th 2015 at 7:37:08 AM

[up][up][up]Depend, but if I had to say, I would say the villain needs to represents something that match the hero in some way. Not power-wise, obviously. I did discuss this in the DCEU session already but here are some Marvel example:

  • Spider-Man: Green Goblin represents both a warped/inverted father figure to Uncle Ben, being an Abusive Parent who encourages his son to care only about him and focus on being great rather than take responsibility. Dr Octopus represents an adult version of what Peter could have become. And Venom, obviously, represents his Spider-Man alias' darker side.

  • Iron Man: The Mandarin represents pretty much the opposite to Iron Man's ideal, being a guy using magic-like alien tech, with a traditionalist ideology, and who wants the world to go back to the past rather than toward the future. Iron Monger represents what Stark would be without his moral standards and good side.

  • Captain America: Red Skull, regardless of weither he really is a nazi or not, remains a psychopath who incarnates pretty much everything horrible in humanity (whereas Cap represens everything good) and is fighting for an order that would amount to a dictatorial dystopia.

[up][up]Nice Jojo's reference^^

edited 12th Aug '15 7:37:51 AM by Theokal3


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