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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#40726: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:07:08 PM

[up]......You do know that comic book movies, especially in the MCU, aren't just straight up adapatations of comic book stories or characters, right? Right? Please tell me you know that.

[up][up] KW?

edited 11th Aug '15 4:07:33 PM by higherbrainpattern

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40727: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:11:49 PM

[up]I know. It's just that I find it funny on a meta-level. So Darren Cross is a "human" with (surrogate) father issues towards Hank Pym and eventually goes f**king crazy and decides to murder him and everyone associated with him (barring maybe Jan- I mean Hope). Then there's the look of his helmet. So I'm thinking Darren wasn't the real villain the director wanted in his Ant-Man movie, if you get my drift.

edited 11th Aug '15 4:15:09 PM by nervmeister

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#40728: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:14:38 PM

Yes, we've discussed how Darren Cross shares a lot of similarities to comics!Ultron in the film.

And Edgar Wright wanted William Cross when he was set to direct, apparently.

edited 11th Aug '15 4:15:12 PM by higherbrainpattern

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40729: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:18:17 PM

[up]Oh......So you started without me, huh...I-it's fine (heh heh). It's not like I wanted to launch the conversation or anything. -frown-

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#40730: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:19:34 PM

Oh, no, please, go ahead!

I'd love to hear your perspective on the topic. smile

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40731: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:29:27 PM

I don't understand. What's the significance of Cross's name being William?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40732: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:30:03 PM

William Cross is a completely different villain named Crossfire.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#40733: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:30:45 PM

[up][up] William Cross is a supervillain by the name of Crossfire in the comics and Darren Cross' cousin.

edited 11th Aug '15 4:32:07 PM by higherbrainpattern

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40734: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:34:14 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Awwww thanks. waii Anyways yeah. It seems Darren was essentially the Ultron origin story that some disappointed fans wanted. Only he was flesh and blood. Not machine.

On another note, I was a first upset I didn't sit through all the credits. But 2nd stinger wasn't quite as impactful as the first. So I'll get over it.

edited 11th Aug '15 4:37:04 PM by nervmeister

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#40735: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:52:11 PM

Darren Cross struck me as the writers/directors going "we need a generic evil executive type, but not any of Ant-Man's few major villains because the villain's role isn't so important in this one. Let's just pick somebody and be done with it."

I still think him being Yellowjacket specifically was a weird decision, though admittedly it's not like there are a whole lot of other Evil Counterparts to Ant-Man floating around the Marvel Universe - and unlike most of the other MCU films that had Evil Counterparts, the plot of this one specifically called for it.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40736: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:54:17 PM

Yeah. They probably figured they could largely get away with it, since Ant-man villains (besides Ultron) aren't that well known.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40737: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:55:41 PM

[up][up] To be fair, Ant-Man doesn't really have any major villains. Or at least none that I can think of.

Ultron is an Avengers villain and then there's Crossfire (maybe?) and Taskmaster (but he's also an Avengers villain) and...eh, I got nothing.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40738: Aug 11th 2015 at 4:59:44 PM

One more interesting villain comparison: Cross boasts to Lang about his suit's impenetrability....Y'know what? I'm calling him "Crosstron" from here on out.

edited 11th Aug '15 5:01:18 PM by nervmeister

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40739: Aug 11th 2015 at 5:16:49 PM

[up]I like the Crosstron nickname^^

@Known Unknown: Personally I stand by the theory that using Yellowjacket (an alias infamous for being the one Pym had at his worst moments) as Cross's supervillain alias was just a nice little Take That, Scrappy! to throw the fans a bone^^ That, and aside from Ultron, Antman never really had that many cool villains, so they did with what they had.

edited 11th Aug '15 5:18:04 PM by Theokal3

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#40740: Aug 11th 2015 at 6:25:25 PM

[up][up][up] He doesn't, really (most of his enemies are General Marvel villains that have specific arcs and/or relationships with him), but he does at least have an archenemy, and an obligatory Marvel comics communist villain team / revenge squad. And then there's himself, of course, but I guess they didn't want to roll that out in the first movie.

Also, Wasp has Whirlwind who is basically her own one man Rogues Gallery.

Addendum: Apparently there is an Evil Counterpart shrinker already in his Rogues Gallery. Didn't know that one...

edited 11th Aug '15 6:27:00 PM by KnownUnknown

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40741: Aug 11th 2015 at 6:30:32 PM

Potential spoiler, but I suspect Scott may have encountered an Infinity Stone in the microverse.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#40742: Aug 11th 2015 at 7:05:33 PM

The other closest thing to a major arch enemy Ant-Man has is probably Crossfire who was set to be the main villain of this group before Edgar Wright left, and he was used as Scott Lang's Arch-Enemy of sorts in Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

In the latter they actually updated his appearance superbly and I hope it's the look they'd use for him.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#40743: Aug 11th 2015 at 7:12:54 PM

[up][up] What makes you say that?

Oh God! Natural light!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#40744: Aug 11th 2015 at 7:39:35 PM

[up]At one point it seemed like he was caught in a Kay Jewelers advertisement of some sort.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#40745: Aug 11th 2015 at 8:01:39 PM

[up][up][up] I think Crossfire is more of a general Marvel villain. Besides EMH, I can't think of any time either Ant-Man has ever really had a major antagonism with him.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#40746: Aug 11th 2015 at 8:29:11 PM

Besides, wasn't it Darren Cross the one who was antagonizing Scott in the comics first?

edited 11th Aug '15 8:29:36 PM by TargetmasterJoe

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#40747: Aug 11th 2015 at 8:34:00 PM

[up][up] He seems to be undergoing a Rogues' Gallery Transplant as of late, having been an antagonist in Earth's Mightiest Heroes, set to be a main villain in the Ant-Man film, and currently being a secondary villain in the comics as they brought back Darren Cross.

edited 11th Aug '15 8:34:13 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#40748: Aug 11th 2015 at 8:34:50 PM

@nerv: Nah, that was just a trippy effect.

Man, I still love what they did with that. The effect is so perfect.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#40749: Aug 11th 2015 at 8:38:20 PM

[up][up] If he's teaming up with Darren, it's likely that's through the fact that he and Darren Cross are related - sort of like how Grim Reaper and Wonder Man give each other plot opportunities every once in a while. Even if Wright wanted to put him into it, he isn't a main villain in the Ant-Man film and hasn't been slated for it for a long time.

In fact, it's possible that they changed it in the first place through someone reading the script and realizing that William wasn't the Cross connected to Ant-Man's mythos.

Not that it might not lead to something in the future (a reaction of seeing minor encounter as grounds for an antagonism en masse is how Deathstroke became associated with Green Arrow, for instance, though admittedly DC's been shopping Deathstroke around for ages) but right now I don't really see it.

edited 11th Aug '15 8:43:32 PM by KnownUnknown

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#40750: Aug 11th 2015 at 8:53:58 PM

Once again, I personally think that Darren Cross was one of the more frightening villains in the MCU due to the lengths he went to, his personality throughout it all, and the many times he passed the Moral Event Horizon ( him liquifying Frank and then flushing the remains down the toilet was one of the most ruthless things I've seen a villain in the MCU commit).

I'm not exactly sure why so many people dislike him, other than his rather generic motive and the like. The execution more than made up for it, and also made for a better Ultron than the Ultron in AOU imo.


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