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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40451: Aug 8th 2015 at 6:57:52 PM

[up] Because the real Mandarin is smart? And knows that revealing himself to his enemies is a stupid thing to do?

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#40452: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:03:52 PM

Here's a thought.

The Mandarin uses magic, right? Then why not have him be a Big Bad for Doctor Strange? Or maybe save him for the next one?

But wait, it's not magic magic, but alien tech that looks like magic, right? Hmmmm. That's tricky...

edited 8th Aug '15 7:04:10 PM by TargetmasterJoe

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#40453: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:07:47 PM

Which I think is the real reason why people wanted him to fight Tony, because even "Alien tech that looks like magic" is different enough from "Kind of an Iron Man suit" to bring something new to the table.

My various fanfics.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#40454: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:11:27 PM

[up][up][up]when you call yourself the mandarín that some white dude manage to copycat you is not smart.

Also Im saying dealing with them in a more quiter matter: kill them fast before they do something stupid with your name

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40455: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:11:28 PM

[up][up] But so is "serum that lets you have fire powers."

[up] You are kind of missing the point entirely. The point is that nobody (except his own people) knows that there is a real Mandarin. So the real Mandarin is free to do whatever he wants.

edited 8th Aug '15 7:12:47 PM by alliterator

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#40456: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:13:35 PM

Yeah, was it ever really explained how Killian is able to use the serum to breathe fire? The closest thing it does for his minions (who are all disabled war veterans, by the way. Tony is killing people who were mutilated in service to their country) is make them explode.

My various fanfics.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#40457: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:15:47 PM

[up][up]so the mandarín pull a killian on killian? Funny, but thanks for clear that up

[up]well those war veterans try to kill him, no?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#40458: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:16:14 PM

Clearly, the only answer is that Tony added it because it'd be boring otherwise.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40459: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:17:17 PM

Yeah, was it ever really explained how Killian is able to use the serum to breathe fire? The closest thing it does for his minions (who are all disabled war veterans, by the way. Tony is killing people who were mutilated in service to their country) is make them explode.

Actually, it gives them all heat powers. They can raise their body temperature to burn things. Killian's powers just took to another level, I guess, making him able to breathe fire.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#40460: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:17:48 PM

[up][up][up]It's still a weird bit of subtext. Like, I understand the message they were going for about who's the real villain and whatnot and how Killian was taking advantage of people injured largely in a war that he was helping to perpetuate, but it's like if the villain had an army of baby seals or something else sympathetic. Yes, you're the hero, but you're still clubbing seals.

edited 8th Aug '15 7:17:59 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#40461: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:20:44 PM

I do like how when Killian breathes fire, Savin's face just looks like "Holy shit, we can do that?!"

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40462: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:24:41 PM

It's also a nod to the comic book "Extremis" storyline written by Warren Ellis, where the bad guy Mallen also breathed fire. (He wasn't a rich white businessman, he was just some bad guy though. Killian himself was just another scientist.)

edited 8th Aug '15 7:26:48 PM by alliterator

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#40463: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:26:08 PM

[up][up][up]Tony never asked to fight those people. The blame still lies with Killian.

edited 8th Aug '15 7:26:22 PM by windleopard

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40464: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:27:23 PM

Which I think is the real reason why people wanted him to fight Tony, because even "Alien tech that looks like magic" is different enough from "Kind of an Iron Man suit" to bring something new to the table.

That's literally the only reason I cared about the Mandarin being in the 3rd movie. At it is, I only wish Tony got to fight Killian with a good suit.

edited 8th Aug '15 7:34:09 PM by VeryMelon

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#40465: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:27:46 PM

Oh, I'm not saying it's Tony's fault. But I guarantee the Daily Bugle ran with the headline "Powermad billionaire murders true American Heroes in petty grudge over woman!"

My various fanfics.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#40466: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:28:43 PM

Couldn't Tony sue them for libel(/slander, whichever applies to written things) if they did that?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#40469: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:35:01 PM

Honestly, JK Simmons as Jameson is the one thing I wish we hadn't lost in the reboot shuffle.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40470: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:37:40 PM

Comics Killian didn't breath fire, he was just a whistleblower scientist under Maya Hansen who killed himself right after he leaked Extremis. The badguy in that arc was some a white supremacist named Mallen. Can't remember if he could breath fire but he did get super strength out of it.

Pretty sure the part where he blows out Savin's chest is a throwback to Mallen's death or at least part of the fight.

edited 8th Aug '15 7:39:32 PM by AlleyOop

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#40471: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:38:22 PM

There is a good reason why the Mandarin has not appeared yet, he is a Yellow Peril villain who is filled with Unfortunate Implications and unsuited to an era where China is one of the biggest movie markets in the world.

And let's face it, Mandarin in the comics is not a very good character and not just the racist origins that undermine him. Mandarin has no consistent personality, his personality is always Depending on the Writer, so much so that I have no idea what he his deal is. Some writers write him as a Complete Monster, other writers try to give him some Well-Intentioned Extremist elements, but these competing versions of the character do not seem like the same person. He is more of an archetype then a character, any deep character stuff seems like it will change by the next story. Its hard to see Mandarin as a suitable rival for Tony, even he seems like a racial stereotype and has no consistent personality to contrast with Iron Man.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#40472: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:41:27 PM

Also IIRC China themselves (not sure if it was the government or a Chinese company) directly funded Iron Man 3. Don't think they'd appreciate a straightforward Mandarin who was still Chinese, even if they did rework him to not be so racist.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40473: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:41:33 PM

Not worth it.

edited 8th Aug '15 7:41:55 PM by VeryMelon

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#40474: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:49:18 PM

Wounded vet or not, some of them such as Savin and Brandt clearly relish in their violence and are perfectly fine with murdering noncombatants, so it's kinda hard for me feel much for that.

You know, I'm noticing a few similarities between Iron Man 3 and Metal Gear Rising. False-flag terrorism plots to rally America against "the other", a corrupt politician set to be the next president (whether by election or succession), grievously injured vets being rebuilt as supersoldiers and used in a private military, a guy who looks like a noncombatant turning out to be unexpectedly badass and capable of projecting fire (EXTREMIS, SON!)...

edited 8th Aug '15 7:50:01 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40475: Aug 8th 2015 at 7:49:55 PM

[up] It also has some things in common with The Long Kiss Goodnight, which is also a movie by Shane Black.


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