TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40326: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:34:43 PM

[up]Sooooo just because a female character has connexion to male characters, that makes her a bad character?

And again we already discussed the whole thing about Hope and Scott sooner.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#40327: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:42:11 PM

[up] No, but it might hurt her character if it isn't much more than that. And I'd be hard pressed to name an aspect if Hope's character that isn't in some way connected to Hank or Scott. The pitfalls of being a supporting character, I suppose...

Oh God! Natural light!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40328: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:42:52 PM

[up][up]First if all I never said anything about good or bad character. I do like movie!Mystique, as a character. You keep reading things I never said.

The problem is that she perpetuates bad trends. It is a common thing in media (though less now than it have been), for women's whole in a story to be solely about their relationship with men. Again, that in itself is not bad. But within the context of the society we live in, yeah, it is a shitty thing to still be so common. That wouldn't be much of a problem if the movie X-Franchise had a wide variation of important woman. But that is not the case.

edited 8th Aug '15 1:43:11 PM by Heatth

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#40330: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:43:35 PM

@Bocaj I'd want to see that movie if only to see how they'd pull it off. Hell, it's been stated before that Dick could one day surpass Bruce.

edited 8th Aug '15 1:44:47 PM by windleopard

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40331: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:43:42 PM

@Heatth, late response becuase distractions but I did read the first two volumes of Runaways becuase that was all the library had and the story telling was very good. But I didn't have any easy to read the rest and like I said, I had heard that it was all downhill after that.

I remember that there was a big push for Dr Strange to be hispanic in these very forums
To be fair, illustrations of him convinced me that was his actual ethnicity or that it was at least ambiguous.

I can understand why someone would make a movie about Ant-Man. What I can't understand is why they wouldn't also want to prominently feature the Wasp as well.
Agreed. From my geek-culture osmosis perspective where my comic book superhero knowledge comes exclusively from adaptations and other people's convesations, Ant-man and Wasp were a package deal.

It's pretty bog-standard "sensible, stoic women constantly exasperated by the men in her life but cools towards them because sensible, stoic women aren't attractive."
I still need to see the movie, I expected that would be her character but I was rather hoping there's be a touch more to it.

On the topic of diversity, there's definitely some things that rub me the wrong way- like the treatment of Mike (pre-Deathlok) on Agents of SHIELD and the decision to kill off Victoria Hand and Isabelle Hartley. Probably could also throw in killing off Tripp (being a minority is a dangerous thing on a Joss Whedon property).
Can hardly call it his property when he barely worked on it. However, that is true. And to be fair, Tripp was killed off becuase the actor had another thing they were doing. Still sucked he was killed off but at least I can get behind the Doylist reason for it.
I have seen a friggin' children cartoon make it work. Don't you dare tell me it wasn't possible.
Well let's not get carried away here. Armored Adventures did a good job with the mandarin story but i wouldn't exactly call what they did with their depictions of China and Gene's family history as .... mordern...

edited 8th Aug '15 1:58:02 PM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40332: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:47:03 PM

The thing with Mystique is that she was actually a better character before Fox spend more time on her. I mean, she started out as a competent henchmen, but she also had this great scene in the second movie in which Nightcrawler asks her why she doesn't simply hide constantly, and she said because she shouldn't have to. Great moment (maybe my favourite in all those movies). Then Fist Class rolls around and she suddenly gets turned into some sort of thing for Magneto and Professor X to fight over, culminating in a scene in which she leaves her adopted brother bleeding in the sand. Yeah, thank you for THAT. But okay, at least they established at some point along the line that she wants to be what she truly is, which is kind of a powerful message. But other than caring about her appearance and serving as object in a tug-war, she has nothing to do in the whole movie.

And then there is Do FP, in which she is again something to be used, this time by the government, and none of her actions make any sense. She just does whatever makes the best plot. They don't even address that Magneto tried to kill her, which makes it unlikely that she will ever fight with him again. Not that they addresses the betrayal in any shape in the movie. Honestly, I nearly want to go back to the underdeveloped character in X-2. That one at least had the potential to be interesting.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40333: Aug 8th 2015 at 1:55:47 PM

@Karkat and Health: Just to clarify, that wasn't sarcasm, I was genuinely asking. And I fail to see how I "keep reading things you never said".

edited 8th Aug '15 1:56:44 PM by Theokal3

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40334: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:01:29 PM

[up][up][up]Wasn't the Iron Man Armored Adventures version of the Mandarin an Anti-Villain? That idea has potential.

edited 8th Aug '15 2:02:00 PM by Kostya

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40335: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:08:03 PM

[up][up]You first claimed I implied comic!Mystique is a feminist icon, when I just said she was better on that front than movie!mystique. Than you asked about if I thought movie!Mystique was a bad character when absolutely nothing I've said about her was remotely related to her quality as a character (that wasn't the topic I wasn't discussing, and it is not even a related one).

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40336: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:08:28 PM

[up][up]He was. It has great potential for a film adaptation. I had watched all of Armored Adventures like a month ago and while it still had it's unfortunate negative stereotype problems of China and stuff with a bit more tweaking the Mandarin can easily be a villain for a modern era.

It just takes good writing and nuance and someone that can work these things out in an intelligent manner. The Mandarin doesn't have to be a horrible stereotype of a bygone era with the Yellow Peril and the Cold War. It just takes work. And unfortunately it can be hard to find writers in the industry willing to put that much thought and work into what they're doing.

edited 8th Aug '15 2:08:46 PM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40337: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:18:12 PM

@Health: Misunderstanding, then. Whatever.

@Kostya: Yes, that was the cartoon Mandarin I was referring to. He wasn't perfect, but he was pretty good in my opinion.

[up]Exactly.

edited 8th Aug '15 2:19:02 PM by Theokal3

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40338: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:22:32 PM

Part of the problem with the Mandarin is that even his name is bad. It is a random Chinese word. It is there to give him a mysterious foreign name that you can just assume have some sort of sinister meaning. The character concept is so over the top bad that the movie solution is actually a good one. They made so the collection of stereotypes actually made sense in story, and it is supposed to be cringe worthy.

Of course, you can take the good parts of the character and actually do something decent with them. But it is tricky as you need to keep enough so it keeps the identity while removing all the worst aspects.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40339: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:23:27 PM

How much time did Armored Adventures spend on him?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40340: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:25:37 PM

He was a main character like Tony.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40341: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:25:57 PM

[up][up]A LOT. He was a major character. He was practically a co-protagonist they focused on him so much. Also Armored Adventures was really good, I know, it surprised me too. If you have the time give it a shot.

[nja]

edited 8th Aug '15 2:26:14 PM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40342: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:31:35 PM

Okay.

Do you think a movie is going to be able to spend as much time?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40343: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:39:50 PM

It depends. They can't do it now but if they really wanted to go the Anti-Villain route with him I think they should have made him a friend and partner of Tony's from the very beginning. Then they can slowly build up to him and Tony having conflicting ideologies until movie three where he becomes an antagonistic force. It would be sort of like what the first Spider-Man trilogy did.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40344: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:39:58 PM

No, but I'm not expecting a film to put in as much time as the series did on Gene Khan, that would be ridiculous. But it's not like you need to spend an entire series or movie to prove a character isn't a racist characiture. I mean the guy could be an archaeologist that discovers the rings or a technology mogul that invented them based on alien tech, no "ancient Chinese mysticism" bent necessary. He can just be a dude.

The Blog The Art
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40345: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:42:46 PM

Armored Adventures Mandarin had his own power armor right? Most of the ring powers could just be various weapons built into it. There's no need to use some kind of mystical explanation.

Halberdier17 We Are With You Zack Snyder from Western Pennsylvania Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
We Are With You Zack Snyder
#40346: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:44:09 PM

[up]If I remember correctly he wears armor but it isn't power armor.

Batman Ninja more like Batman's Bizarre Adventure
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40347: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:48:36 PM

Oh. Well it looks cool from the pictures I've seen. They could always make it powered armor in a movie.

edit: I mean come on. This would look awesome in a movie.

edited 8th Aug '15 2:50:40 PM by Kostya

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40348: Aug 8th 2015 at 2:55:37 PM

The armor isn't powered in the traditional sense but it's manifested when he uses the Makluan rings, so it's part of the ancient alien tech in the rings.

Going that route would mean we would have our "Yet another armored enemy for Tony to Fight" thing only with the twist that the enemy didn't build it themselves and got it from alien rings.

The Blog The Art
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40349: Aug 8th 2015 at 3:00:18 PM

Well I never had an issue with most of the villains having some kind of armor. It's not like the comics didn't do that too. There are several Iron Man villains that are like that.

edited 8th Aug '15 3:00:29 PM by Kostya

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40350: Aug 8th 2015 at 3:01:01 PM

"Part of the problem with the Mandarin is that even his name is bad. It is a random Chinese word. It is there to give him a mysterious foreign name that you can just assume have some sort of sinister meaning. The character concept is so over the top bad that the movie solution is actually a good one. They made so the collection of stereotypes actually made sense in story, and it is supposed to be cringe worthy."

Yeah, this is totally an issue in a universe where you can have an Nazi organisation named HYDRA led and founded by a guy named Red Skull.

More seriously even that can be solved. You can have him be a guy fascinated in Chinese history who uses it as his motif and as such uses "Mandarin" as a codename to lead his organisation, the same way Wilson Fisk calls himself the Kingpin.

"I mean the guy could be an archaeologist that discovers the rings or a technology mogul that invented them based on alien tech, no "ancient Chinese mysticism" bent necessary. He can just be a dude."

That's basically what I suggested.

"I mean come on. This would look awesome in a movie.◊"

Definitely agreed. This is, as far as I am concerned, one of the best designs he had.


Total posts: 186,763
Top