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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#40201: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:08:33 AM

Speaking of which, if Tony really did perfect Extremis then nobody in the MCU really has any excuse to ever be missing any arms or legs. They can't really put that genie back into the bottle.

This is why it's important to the worldbuilding that Tony cured it, he didn't perfect it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40202: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:20:49 AM

Aside from Tony being able to remove the Schrapnel goes against everything we learned in Iron Man II, I am also against it because the arc reactor is his consequence. Removing it is for me worse than not killing a character. (Because, like I said before, death is the most boring of consequences either way).

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#40203: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:21:54 AM

I've realized what a difficult position MARVEL is in when it comes to diversity. With finite properties they have to ensure diversity not just in their films but also in their netflix TV shows as well. The defenders at the moment still has a token female and token black guy (It helps that the roster is small and one of the other two is handicapped)

I was pondering a while back who'd I have in a persistent street level Marvel Knights team. I think I settled on the roster of Luke Cage, She Hulk, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Cloak and Dagger, and possibly Moonknight and possibly Spider-man.

Also I liked the idea of lots of them not knowing each other's secret identities because that's a team dynamic we've not seen in a while but eh. As a team that's nine characters, three are female and (depending on which spider-man) three are people of colour. Which isn't awful. In a TV show you'd have to cut Spider-man because it would be jarring (But possible!) to see him on a TV budget.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40204: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:25:08 AM

You should really have seen the last movies. Fox has grown out of the whole caring only about Wolverine thing lastly. Well, not completely, but they are on the good path.

Yeah, now the care about Xavier and Magneto too! Even when the later is kind of a derailment to the whole plot! To be fair, I guess Mystique is important too.

Seriously, though that doesn't really address Drake's complaint. The awesome X-Woman are still all sidelined for a handful of X-Dudes, with Kitty being booted from her first major story (the story is hardly about her, but she is the focal point and the heroine). Even Mystique, who are the major female character in the X-Movie, is a far cry from her role in the comics. Not only the personality is completely different, but the original is a highly independent woman, while the movie characterization is greatly dependent on the men of her life.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40205: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:28:42 AM

Technical the Defenders have an handicapped white guy, a woman, a black guy, a who know which way Marvel will go guy and a black Woman as stand-bye nurse.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#40206: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:38:25 AM

My Phase 2 ranking:

Captain America 2 > Guardians of the Galaxy > Ant-Man > Avengers 2 > Thor 2 > Iron Man 3

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#40207: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:40:04 AM

Oh yeah I forgot Claire Temple has been confirmed. My mood has improved on remembering this.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40208: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:54:57 AM

@Heath: Fair enough. But it's still an improvement in that some X-Men get more development aside than Wolverine. Also you forgot Beast.

Meh, as far as I am concerned Tobias seems to scream misoginy at pretty much everything. Ant-Man gave a major role and good development to Hope and still Tobias complains because she wasn't made the Wasp immediatly and wasn't the hero instead of Ant-Man, who's the friggin' title character. Also, comic book Mystique a highly independant woman, really? Because as far as I remember she was more The Vamp and one of the most vicious characters. I wouldn't exactly call that a feminist icon.

edited 8th Aug '15 8:58:37 AM by Theokal3

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#40209: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:55:22 AM

The fact that Days of Future Past only focused on four or five characters is a good thing. Like it or not, Kitty had gotten, like, zero character development in the original trilogy, so making the whole plot about her would've derailed the entire movie. If DoFP had tried to give screentime to all the major X-Men characters, it would've just turned into a trainwreck like Age of Ultron.

DoFP is one of if not the best Marvel ensemble movie of all time because it understands that narratives have to have structure. They can't just be "SHOVE EVERYTHING FROM THE COMICS INTO THE STORY EVEN WHEN IT MAKES NO SENSE!"

edited 8th Aug '15 8:56:00 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#40210: Aug 8th 2015 at 8:59:05 AM

Re: diversity:

Phase 1 consisted of Marvel adapting the handful of heroes it had left who had some name recognition outside of comic book readers: The Hulk was famous from his TV show, Captain America had starred in a movie before, Iron Man had his own cartoon series at one point, and Thor was widely known from Norse Mythology.

Phase 2 consisted mostly of sequels to Phase 1 movies. The only new properties were Guardians of the Galaxy (which everyone agreed was a big gamble given the obscurity of the characters) and Ant-Man (which I'm pretty sure only got off the ground because a famous writer/director was championing the project).

So, really, Phase 3 is the earliest Marvel could adapt obscure superhero characters with any degree of confidence. Unfortunately, given the source material they're working from, "obscure" and "not a straight white male" tend to go hand in hand.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40211: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:01:49 AM

They could still racelift people. Nothing says Stephen Strange or Peter Parker have to be white guys.

Khantalas E-Who-Must-Not-Be-Gendered from More sheep than people (Before Time Began) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
E-Who-Must-Not-Be-Gendered
#40212: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:03:22 AM

Also, nothing says Spider-Man has to be Peter Parker.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#40214: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:06:31 AM

True enough, and I have no problem with changing a character's race when doing an adaptation. However, I do recognize that that's a somewhat contentious issue.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40215: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:09:18 AM

[up]Well, it just needs to be done for a good reason. Like Ability over Appearance, as they did with Heirndall in Thor. It becomes a problem when you make a Race Lift for the sake of it, essetially.

edited 8th Aug '15 9:10:31 AM by Theokal3

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40216: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:09:48 AM

There is nothing wrong with leaving characters the way they were. Plus, I see a lot of problems with race bending in both cases. In Peter case, the teenage version is bullied at school and often exploited. It is nearly impossible to change his race without changing the implications of this, too (And yes, I know about Miles Morales but he is a different character than Peter Parker). And in Dr. Strange's case it works against the concept that Dr. Strange was a privileged guy on the very top of the food chain before his accident.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#40217: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:11:15 AM

Peter can be an outcast and viewed as a loser without being bullied.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40218: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:11:40 AM

I remember that there was a big push for Dr Strange to be hispanic in these very forums

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40219: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:11:40 AM

[up][up][up]And let's not even talk about what it'd have done to make Scott Lang, a former convict, black.

[up]Funny, I had the same idea.

edited 8th Aug '15 9:12:25 AM by Theokal3

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#40220: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:13:06 AM

[up]x9 They already established who's playing Stephen and Peter. Benedict Cumberbatch and Tom Holland, respectively.

Speaking of Tom Holland, I wonder how his New York accent will work out. And also if he'll poke around in Spider-Man's other outings of media (maybe including a certain spectacularly known show) to get an idea of what to do when he dons the Spider-Suit.

edited 8th Aug '15 9:14:07 AM by TargetmasterJoe

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40221: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:14:13 AM

As I recall, the bullying in the original Spider-Man comics consisted of calling him 'puny parker' but then trying to invite him places anyway.

And like half the girls in his class had a crush on him.

But still he thought 'One day I'll show them!'

Kind of lucky Peter never built a death ray and held the city hostage actually

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40222: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:14:26 AM

Fair enough. But it's still an improvement in that some X-Men get more development aside than Wolverine. Also you forgot Beast.

I didn't. He had some development in First Class but was promptly forgotten in DoFP. He was barely there in that movie. It is not like Wolverine was the sole character in the original trilogy either. Other people got some screentime, such as Rogue, Iceman and Pyro. The thing is that Wolverine was still unmistenkenly the main character and almost every movie is about him somehow.

Meh, as far as I am concerned Tobias seems to scream misoginy at pretty much everything. Ant-Man gave a major role and good development to Hope and still Tobias complains because she wasn't made the Wasp immediatly and wasn't the hero instead of Ant-Man, who's the friggin' title character.

That is the thing. Why is Ant-Man the title character when the story is clearly not about him. It was the writers/directors choice to make a story that is so much about Pym and Hope but, nonetheless, give the antagonism to Scott even though he was clearly not the best guy for the whole.

Hope should have been the Wasp (Or Ant-Woman) immediately because the movie made painfully clear that she was the most suited person for the job. There is literally no compelling reason for why she shouldn't. The only argument is that Pym is worried for her, but that is not a good argument.

Also, comic book Mystique a highly independant woman, really? Because as far as I remember she was more The Vamp and one of the most vicious characters. I wouldn't exactly call that a feminist icon.

I never said she was a feminist icon. I said she was an independent woman, which she is. The fact she si a vicious Vamp doesn't chage the fact her characterization and development is not intrinsically tied to the men around hernote .

The fact that Days of Future Past only focused on four or five characters is a good thing. Like it or not, Kitty had gotten, like, zero character development in the original trilogy, so making the whole plot about her would've derailed the entire movie. If Do FP had tried to give screentime to all the major X-Men characters, it would've just turned into a trainwreck like Age of Ultron.

I don't dispute that. I dispute the fact tat they decided to give the focus to 3 white dudes who already had been the focus all this time. Despite the fact the franchise being so diverse and overall good at spreading focus around.

So, really, Phase 3 is the earliest Marvel could adapt obscure superhero characters with any degree of confidence. Unfortunately, given the source material they're working from, "obscure" and "not a straight white male" tend to go hand in hand.

That doesn't explain why the non-white dude movies are so far behind in schedule. Why are we getting Doctor Strange before them? Why does Doctor Strange need to be a white dude anyway?

edited 8th Aug '15 9:14:44 AM by Heatth

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#40223: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:15:45 AM

Also, nothing says Spider-Man has to be Peter Parker.

Am I gonna have to start specifying "I want a good Peter Parker movie" every time I say "I want a good Spider-Man movie?" Because, you know, there didn't used to be more than one Spider-Man. Miles Morales came along a couple years ago, whereas Peter Parker's been around for over half a century. It's not that Miles can't get a movie ever, but as a huge fan of the character that was the "true" Spider-Man for decades, I really care more about Peter Parker than anyone else who might pick up the mantle.

(Also, all the Spider-Men who aren't Miles or Peter are from alternate universes that wouldn't fit too well in the MCU. And then there are all the Spider-Women, but that's a whole other can of worms.)

I don't dispute that. I dispute the fact that they decided to give the focus to 3 white dudes who already had been the focus all this time. Despite the fact the franchise being so diverse and overall good at spreading focus around.

They had to give the focus to those characters because the time travel plot was so convoluted that trying to establish brand new characters would've bogged down the movie, severed any emotional ties the old movies had built up, and turned the whole thing into a trainwreck. That's why the only new characters introduced are either mutants with cool powers but no real personality or Boliver Trask, who gets a couple scenes to flesh out his character but is mostly just a standard mutant-hating government villain.

DofP was a necessary movie to finish off what'd been established before and usher in some new plotlines. X-Men Apocalypse is the movie that needs a new, diverse cast, and from the looks of things, that's what it's gonna deliver. Now, if Apocalypse turns into "the Wolverine, Xavier, and Magneto show," then we'll have a problem.

edited 8th Aug '15 9:22:21 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40224: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:17:53 AM

The thing about Kitty is that no she hasn't gotten much development aside from the third movie that people don't like to talk about.

But that development has to come from somewhere!

They could have had Kitty sent back in time and have her team up with past Logan.

Yes, she would have been too young if they did the body surf thing but they didn't have to do it that way. They had already changed big aspects of the story.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Khantalas E-Who-Must-Not-Be-Gendered from More sheep than people (Before Time Began) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
E-Who-Must-Not-Be-Gendered
#40225: Aug 8th 2015 at 9:18:46 AM

Am I gonna have to start specifying "I want a good Peter Parker movie" every time I say "I want a good Spider-Man movie?"

Nothing says there has to be one Spider-Man per universe.


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