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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#40026: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:30:43 PM

Wow, that spoilered thing is, like, really impressive. The Living Tribunal is normally considered to be the second most powerful entity in the marvel multiverse.

What's this I hear about the beyonders actually being Doom and Richards?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40027: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:39:13 PM

I hadn't heard anything about that

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40028: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:48:39 PM

The Beyonders are not Doom and Richards at all. I have no idea where that came from.

The Beyonders are from "beyond," outside of reality itself, and were destroying the Multiverse as part of a grand experiment. Doom apparently killed them and took their power, but we don't know how.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40030: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:57:58 PM

Oh and they are also responsible for the Beyond Corporation and hence Nextwave.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#40031: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:59:53 PM

Just out of curiosity why do people hate Ultimate Fantastic Four so much?

From the sounds of it, it started out decent but came out around the point when Marvel started to shift the Ultimate verse from being a modern reimagining of the 616-verse to being the "No more Plot Armor" version, which culminated in Johnny being killed and Reed becoming Doctor Doom.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40032: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:11:06 PM

[up][up] Wait, seriously?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#40033: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:11:11 PM

i haven't read the run in question but i've seen a few pages. it is true that reed eventually becomes a supervillain calling himself "the maker". he also attempted to take over the world and it was pretty creepy.

edited 6th Aug '15 5:11:45 PM by wehrmacht

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#40034: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:12:36 PM

I think it reached the point where some people began to believe Doom was right about him sabotaging the other's experiment

Fun fact: Matt Fraction's run retcons Ben into sabotaging Doom's machine out of petty hatred for him.

Sometimes, it seems that writers give Doom the Draco In Leather Pants treatment and act like it makes him more complex.

edited 6th Aug '15 5:13:46 PM by windleopard

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40035: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:19:41 PM

@Tuckerscreator: I am aware of this actually, but I assumed there was some reason people disliked it before this. I mean, all of this happened after Ultimatum, and that event pretty much destroyed/ruined about half of the Ultimate Universe so it's not like UF 4 was an isolated case.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40036: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:22:28 PM

I read the first volume of Ultimate Fantastic Four.

I mostly remember thinking 'geez mole man is gross why'd you make him so gross ugh stop having close ups on him'

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40037: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:42:06 PM

Just out of curiosity why do people hate Ultimate Fantastic Four so much? I never read their books and I keep hearing it's not very popular, but I couldn't find any source explaining why people dislike it. Even the YMMV page of the comic has very little info.

I don't think anyone actually hates it. The thing is, the book was simply not very good. It was mostly unremarkable. People just didn't read it. At last Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men had strong ideas that many people either hated or loved. UFF, however, was just kinda forgettable.

From the sounds of it, it started out decent but came out around the point when Marvel started to shift the Ultimate verse from being a modern reimagining of the 616-verse to being the "No more Plot Armor" version, which culminated in Johnny being killed and Reed becoming Doctor Doom.

Nah. UFF is older than that. Eventually that is what happened with the team, sure, but that is not the reason people don't like the book. Hell, I am pretty sure the book had already been canceled by the time this happened. At one point, Johnny went to the Spider-Man and then X-Men books precisely because no one was doing anything with him.

edited 6th Aug '15 5:42:50 PM by Heatth

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#40038: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:54:36 PM

I thought I'd heard that Ultimate!Reed became Kang.

Cross (Don’t ask)
#40039: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:58:22 PM

I think that was Sue.

edited 6th Aug '15 5:58:51 PM by Cross

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#40040: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:58:56 PM

I'd be willing to claim the closest thing to what Ultimate!Reed became is an Eldritch Abomination.

You know, like Nyarlathotep.

edited 6th Aug '15 6:05:08 PM by ultimatepheer

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40042: Aug 6th 2015 at 6:11:04 PM

@Theokal, What Heatth said. I didn't continue Ultimate FF because it was just unremarkable. It wasn't the worst thing in the world, just not worth continuing and on occasion was outright unpleasant (see: Ultimate Mad Thinker).

So I stopped. I mean I stopped caring for it before all the ACTUAL awful stuff happened.

Also, I apparently have Ultimate FF to blame for making Marvel Zombies a thing so I have that reason to genuinely hate it rather than just be indifferent.

The Blog The Art
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40043: Aug 6th 2015 at 6:35:10 PM

What was Ultimate Mad Thinker like?

I assume worse than Ultimate Mole Man, who as established was kind of really gross.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#40044: Aug 6th 2015 at 6:38:34 PM

[up] If you remember the Mad Thinker from Iron Man Armored Adventures, she was based off of Ultimate Mad Thinker.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40045: Aug 6th 2015 at 6:58:52 PM

But unlike the armored adventures version Ultimate Mad Thinker was running around killing people and then adding their brain matter into her own to make herself smarter and giver herself this grotesque appearance.

What didn't help was the really awful crappy art style that made her look more awful. That was where I believe I stopped reading because a change to a crappier art can really turn me off in addition to general bleh-ness.

I mean one can mark the decline in the storytelling of Ultimate a Spider-man to when they switched from the amazing Mark Bagley to the truly awful Stuart Immounen. It wasn't a cause obviously but it was an unusually well timed visual cue.

The Blog The Art
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#40046: Aug 6th 2015 at 7:11:06 PM

Finished rewatching Daredevil today.

I feel like Leland Owlsley really got shafted in the end.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#40047: Aug 6th 2015 at 7:11:45 PM

So... half of the Ultimate!Four became supervillains?

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#40048: Aug 6th 2015 at 7:43:59 PM

Johnny I loved so much as a spidey character. He hit on peter's clone without knowing. I loved that.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40049: Aug 6th 2015 at 8:41:45 PM

Wait, seriously?

Heh. Yes. Read Captain America and the Mighty Avengers. It's pretty awesome.

As for Ultimate Fantastic Four, the reason it didn't really do well is due to multiple factors. The first being that Mark Millar wrote a bunch of it and Greg Land drew a bunch of it. Millar's writing is...okay, I guess, but he kind of fucked up Namor. And Land just copied from other people a lot — and every time you saw Sue Storm, you knew he was copying from porn.

The best parts of Ultimate Fantastic Four are written by Warren Ellis, actually, even if he did give Doom goat legs. Their encounter and fight against Nihil was amazing. And then the Ultimate Extinction trilogy was awesome.

Eventually, Jonathan Hickman turned Ult Reed Richards into a genocidal supervillain called the Maker. It was actually a clever twist, although at this point, he's kind of worn out his welcome.

edited 6th Aug '15 8:41:58 PM by alliterator

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#40050: Aug 6th 2015 at 8:42:51 PM

So, I came across this image of what appears to be the Doctor Strange concept art. Not sure if it's legit or not.

If it is, then I can't say that I'm too keen on the Badass Longcoat (I've always been more fond of Stephen wearing a cape), but it does look pretty cool otherwise (I think the one on the left is my favorite). And he appears to not have a goatee after all. Straight-up Badass Mustache!


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