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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#40001: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:38:05 PM

Because I am getting really sick of the repeated assertions that they're only worth reacquiring for their rogues gallery.

I've never really cared for the "family of superheroes" concept, I had more fun with the Incredibles.

Then again, the FF films reportedly weren't very good, and the films are how I ended up liking most of the Marvel characters and researching them further. Silver Surfer was my primary takeaway from the second FF film because of how cool he looked. I tried getting into the animated series when it was on Cartoon Network and it was just... meh.

Its tired assertion perhaps, but I do prefer Galactus/Surfer/Doom to the FF.

I was on a forum years ago that declared Reed Richards to be a virtually unstoppable genius who could Mc Guyver his way out of just about anything. Since then I've never been very compelled to examine him further, because that never seems to be off the mark.

I'd like Invisible Woman if not for the TV Tropes page focusing on how she went from "helpless damsel" to a picture of her standing in front of a large number of supervillains. That sort of "empowerment" doesn't really jive well with me. It's one thing when you have Wonder Woman wear pants and a cape, or when you make Barbara Gordon walk again. Invisible Woman's powers seem to have undergone an extreme, Superman-like upgrade, and I'm none too pleased with the way Silver Age Superman leapt up the power scale either. In other words, she's "too badass". I'm not sure I'd ever be happy with her powerset "a woman who can turn invisible, now generates forcefields, can you kill with her brain."

The only time I liked The Human Torch was whenever he'd get into a verbal battle with Spider Man. Otherwise, I've been more entertained with "flame" characters like Pyro and Fire.

The Thing is the only one I legitimately like, because of a purported event earlier in his history when he fought The Gladiator and refused to give up, despite how badly he was beaten. Otherwise, he's a more humanized Hulk to me.

They're too mix-matched. Why are these people together? I've never seen an adaption that adequately establishes why an elastic man, an invisible woman, a flaming man, and a rock monster are working together. And that's without getting into their supposedly "Omega-level/Phoenix/Xavier-powerful" children.

Maybe its because they refused to let Spiderman into the group, maybe I'm biased like that.

Avengers makes "powered armor + super soldier + spy + rage monsters + norse god + superhuman archer" work. Maybe the new FF can do that for me.

edited 6th Aug '15 3:37:16 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#40002: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:48:19 PM

That picture is really more an exaggeration. Sue's strong, but she's not so powerful that she doesn't need a team.

And trust me, with how badly written female characters in super hero comics can be, "too badass" is never one the problems.

Their origin is why they work together. They were friends before the accident and were friends after wards. They're one of the few super teams who aren't brought together by the accident.

Given that Spider-Man was a grade A jackass in his early appearances, it's not surprising they wouldn't let him join. Furthermore, he joined the team during Johnny's temporary death so it's not like they hadn't moved past that incident.

edited 6th Aug '15 1:52:02 PM by windleopard

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#40003: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:53:32 PM

I've never really cared for the "family of superheroes" concept, I had more fun with the Incredibles.

That line made me wonder if the should just skip ahead and include Valeria and Franklin since the beginning. That would sell the "family of superheroes" better. I have never been a huge fan of the team in the comics, but I did read a few stories. My favorites are, invariably, the ones that include the two children (and occasionally their friends). Maybe they should just go with that angle.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40004: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:54:25 PM

[up] Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too. Add Franklin and Valeria in there and have them as a family.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40005: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:27:29 PM

I've never really cared for the "family of superheroes" concept, I had more fun with the Incredibles.

Soooo does that mean I'll get lynched if I say I don't think the Incredibles was that great?^^'

"They're too mix-matched. Why are these people together? I've never seen an adaption that adequately establishes why an elastic man, an invisible woman, a flaming man, and a rock monster are working together. And that's without getting into their supposedly "Omega-level/Phoenix/Xavier-powerful" children."

... Because they were friends before the incident AND got their powers from the same incident? That's kind of a stupid complain, no offense. Especially when Ragtag Bunch of Misfits has become something of a standard in superheroes teams.

Personally my real complain about them would rather be that I find their costumes and designs... kinda bland. Same for their superficial personalities, though I have no doubt they are actually more interesting than on the first look.

So yeah, again I don't hate them, but I do find their rogues gallery and supporting cast more interesting.

edited 6th Aug '15 2:28:21 PM by Theokal3

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40006: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:43:16 PM

[up]

So yeah, again I don't hate them, but I do find their rogues gallery and supporting cast more interesting.

Funnily enough, that's the same way I feel about Batman.tongue

edited 6th Aug '15 2:43:30 PM by kkhohoho

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#40008: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:48:08 PM

[up][up]You are not the only one who feels that way about Batman. At least that's what I feel towards most adaptations.

Considering that the F4 are actually explorers, I am ready to bet that they would work better in the MCU, in which there already is a lot for them to explore.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40009: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:49:44 PM

Maybe its because they refused to let Spiderman into the group, maybe I'm biased like that.

They would have let him join, they just wouldn't have given him money.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40010: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:00:38 PM

I like Ben and I like Johnny especially together or in other teams.

I have no strong feelings on Reed and Sue, so I can totally understand why people would be more interested in the FF's rogues gallery than the team themselves.

They are basically the Marvel Universe's most effective supporting cast and I think I might even prefer them that way. I doubt they'll be included in the MCU any time in the near future but if it were to happen I feel that they would serve better as universe-wide supporting characters, showing up in other people's movies to support them on one thing or another.

I have read FF stuff before and watched several of their cartoons. They're fine, but I find that I like other teams and characters more.

The only major FF thing I remember reading (since the parts of Ultimate FF that I didn't forget I didn't enjoy) was this giant hardback trade the library had that had several stories in it.

I remember it helped me realize that the FF were explorers and not superheroes. In the trade we see Doom sacrifice his true love for a set of magical augments to his armor that drive the latter half of the trade's story since Doom had basically bested Reed because magic was the one thing Reed could never understand. Also a pit to hell was opened, Ben died and Reed was working excessively to bring him back. We learned Hellfire can burn Johnny. Also, Doom touched Reed's face with his Hellfire enriched gauntlet and melted/scarred Reed's face in a way that his powers could not recover.

Also, in some mini stuff before that we find out Ben has a specially reserved seat in a movie theatre, front row, extra wide, with his name on it, a bunch of urban youth wrote a rap dedicated to Ben (no points for guessing what the chorus's main line was), and apparently the Yancy Street gang had been sending Ben prank gifts for ages (turns out it was actually Johnny the whole time).

There's an alien woman that babysits Franklin and Valeria.

Oh, and there was some incident with some other organization trying to reverse engineer unstable molecules that resulted in some outbreak of molecules "adapting" everything into a goop so Sue had to enclose the entire building in a force field to let it eat itself to death. Iconic psychic nosebleed included.

The Blog The Art
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40011: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:09:29 PM

[up] That was one of the Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo stories. They had an awesome run.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#40012: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:13:59 PM

How I'd introduce the FF into the MCU.

Ant-Man 2 opens with Hank's door bell ringing. Hank seemingly ignores it before noticing a postit note on his desk saying 'Stop answering your door with a swarm of ants. -Hope' Hank grumpily gets up and walks through a quickly dispersing swarm of ants to open the door to discover Reed, Sue, Ben, Johnny and Janet Van Dyne stood there. Ben is wearing a 'I <3 the microverse' T-Shirt.

Reed says: 'Hello Doctor Pym, we have returned from our mission into the microverse to save your wife. I would have told you, but I was content that your misconceptions about pym particles would have hindered my research.'

Johnny interrupts with 'The 21st century sure is backwards! I bet no one even remembers who Captain America is anymore!'

Hank responds by punching Reed in the face and waiting twenty five years to then blow up/shrink down the Baxter Building to deprive Reed of a lucrative investment deal.

edited 6th Aug '15 3:15:47 PM by Whowho

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40013: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:18:06 PM

I love cranky Pym

I love cranky Pym an unhealthy amount.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40014: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:18:28 PM

[up][up] I'd watch it.

It would be kind of funny of the FF were actually from 1961 and the spaceship incident caused them to skip forward in time as well as give them powers. But we already get that "fish out of water" stuff from Captain America, so I don't know.

edited 6th Aug '15 3:18:34 PM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40015: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:25:07 PM

Cap can only be fish out of water for so long

Then you need to bring in Simon Williams to comment on 'women these days'

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40016: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:25:23 PM

@Alliterator, Well, that explains why I enjoyed it then and why it's one of the few FF things I can remember. Maybe they should be basing FF adaptations off of that I stead of that dreadful Ultimate FF run.

Though I took major issue with them killing off my favourite ever loving blue eyed character. Also did you know Reed can speak trinary code on the fly because I suddenly remembered that was also a thing that happened in that collection.

@Whowho, I love it

The Blog The Art
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#40017: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:28:33 PM

Hank "You've been gone twenty five years."

Reed "A scientist would be able to calculate that we only experienced 150 minuets from our perspective."

Ben "There was a clobberin' decade.'

I think the four and Doom's origins are tied to the Cold War somewhat intrinsicly, so I'd make Doom functionally impervious to ageing, and The Four active science explorers from perhaps as early as the sixties, but they often go on time distortion adventures which mean they've only experienced a decade or so, and are currently off universe during the contemporary events of the MCU so far, and set to return soon. They're not so much fish out of water because they're use to it by now.

Johnny makes old age jokes every time he sees Hank because they were born the same year. Hank punches Reed every time.

edited 6th Aug '15 3:32:13 PM by Whowho

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#40018: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:31:32 PM

I can get behind anything that results in cranky Pym punching Richards.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40019: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:39:28 PM

The Marvel Universe's two greatest shape changing dicks face off in battle of the century as distant and condescending stretchy super genius attempts to dodge the cranky old size changing scientist whose claim to fame is never being as impressive as every other scientist in the MCU and committing domestic terror.

And because the universe hates Pym, Reed won.

The Blog The Art
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#40020: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:40:20 PM

Though I took major issue with them killing off my favourite ever loving blue eyed character.

To be fair, in the story right after the Thing was killed, Reed was all, "I'm breaking into Heaven and getting Ben back." And then he did. And met God (who looked like Jack Kirby).

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#40021: Aug 6th 2015 at 3:50:05 PM

@Alliterator, Really? My god, that trade completely skipped that part so I was really confused why Ben was alive near the end of it. I had assumed they obviously skipped stuff for some sort of thematic compilation but the revival of Ben is sort of a big thing to skip.

The Blog The Art
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#40022: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:04:45 PM

That's one of the very few appearances of 'The One Above All' right? The god of the entire multiverse whom The Living Tribunal answers to.

Hay, does The Living Tribunal have any role at all in the incursions and Secret Wars? Considering his thing is deciding which universes do and don't get to exist, the current plot line seems to be his domain.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#40023: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:06:44 PM

He ded.

The Beyonders kill him.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#40024: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:17:31 PM

Well fuck those guys.

And considering that between Civil War and the Illuminati, Reed has fucked up a lot, and come across as a giant douche in the process.

I think it reached the point where some people began to believe Doom was right about him sabotaging the other's experiment.

It's like the comics want to make Tony and Reed the biggest dicks in the universe. They already dragged Charles Xavier through the mud and then killed him.

One Strip! One Strip!
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#40025: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:28:51 PM

Just out of curiosity why do people hate Ultimate Fantastic Four so much? I never read their books and I keep hearing it's not very popular, but I couldn't find any source explaining why people dislike it. Even the YMMV page of the comic has very little info.


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