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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39751: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:22:24 AM

They didn't have to do a Hank Pym "Ant-Man" movie before they could get to Scott Lang, now did they?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39752: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:25:31 AM

Hank Pym is nowhere near as iconic as Peter Parker.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39753: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:32:38 AM

Point being, even if you consider it essential that Miles be following in Peter's footsteps, it doesn't mean you need an entire movie about Peter first.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39754: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:33:21 AM

And as I already pointed out, you can get away with saying "Ant-man used to be a hero, but nobody saw him." You can't do the same with Spider-man.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#39755: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:34:39 AM

Hell, wait a few years and have old(er comparatively) Garfield or Maguire Spider-Man die in the opening minutes of a Miles Morales movie.

"If you strike me down, MCU-adaptation of Morlun played by a buff Robert Pattinson, I'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
"That is a reference. And now welcome to die."
"I wish we were adapting the Other, blarg!"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39756: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:38:59 AM

[up][up] Why not? As far as I can tell, none of the Avengers have made any indication that they know who Daredevil is. By the same token, they might just not have heard of Spider-Man.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39757: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:41:27 AM

The Chitauri Invasion is the elephant in the room for establishing pre-existing superheroes. Where was X during the invasion?

One acceptable answer is, "Not in New York." That's why Rhodey gets a pass. The Invasion didn't last very long, maybe a few hours at the most. If you're in California or Russia or the moon, you aren't going to get there in time to be involved in the events.

Another good answer is, "Retired." That's where Pym and Falcon were when it happened. They weren't actively superheroes when it happened. Falcon didn't even have any of his gear, because his superheroing was done as part of his military service, and he didn't get to keep the Falcon suit.

Two of Spider-Man's defining character traits, however, are his position in New York and his unwillingness to not get involved in something. It doesn't matter if it's a bank robbery, an alien attack, demons from Hell, etc. if it's happening and he's nearby, it's his business. Thus, if Spider-Man existed during Avengers 1, he would have been part of Avengers 1.

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Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39758: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:42:13 AM

Falcon's comments in Ant-Man imply Spider-Man is a recent thing.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39759: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:42:16 AM

Maybe he got buried under some debris and didn't get loose until it was all over.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39760: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:44:36 AM

If Peter was swinging around and saving people on a regular basis why didn't Shield try to recruit him for the Avenger Initiative?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#39761: Aug 2nd 2015 at 8:44:50 AM

"I have... to lift this giant pile of stuff... have to summon all my strength... New York will be destroyed if I can't do this thing I'm known for... I-I did it, I'm free!"
"Sorry Spidey, the invasion is over. The Avengers stopped it."
"Who?"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39762: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:04:55 AM

Plus it is pretty much part of the mythology of the MCU that up to the point when Iron Man started flying around, there weren't officially any Superheroes around because the general population was shielded (pun intended) from all the really odd stuff, and that the incident in New York was a paradigm shift for everyone. That's why they made such a big point in Ant-man that he was believed to be a myth which mostly went around spy agencies.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#39763: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:20:09 AM

Assuming the film takes place around the time it's released and movie Peter is about 16, he'd have been 11 when the Chitauri invaded. So it's a fair guess he wasn't bitten until a while after.

edited 2nd Aug '15 9:20:30 AM by AlleyOop

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#39764: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:22:49 AM

Of course, by the time a new Spider-Man movie comes out in 2017, The Avengers will have happened five years ago. If they wanted to, there's plenty of room to have Peter active as Spider-Man for a long while prior to the start of his movie.

I still maintain a TV series would be a better fit for Spider-Man, though, and with some of the effects I'm seeing in modern TV shows, doing web-slinging on a TV budget might actually be feasible.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39765: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:27:26 AM

[up][up] Right. The timing is only an issue if we were to do what some in this thread are advocating and do the same treatment of Peter as Pym got: skip right to Miles and have Peter be his well-established mentor figure who, after having been Spider-Man for many, many years, is now passing the torch to the new kid.

If Spider-Man had been around for 10-15 years, we would have heard of him by now. It's a bit of a cop-out to try and say he's been there but was just offscreen and conveniently never mentioned any of the times it would have been appropriate to see or hear about him.

edited 2nd Aug '15 9:28:48 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#39766: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:29:09 AM

I agree that I'd have preferred TV Spider-Man, especially after Daredevil showed how well street level heroes can be done. He's lost his theater luster, and with all the other MCU films raising the stakes his might come off as trite in comparison. The perils of Serial Escalation I guess.

I like Peter a little more than Miles simply because his age means he's got a better side cast and more interesting stories under his belt than Miles yet, but he's more than well established enough from the older Sony films that they don't really need more than one entry at most before they introduce Miles. They don't necessarily have to kill MCU Peter off for Miles to work either.

edited 2nd Aug '15 9:31:32 AM by AlleyOop

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39767: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:31:20 AM

Daredevil has his feet on the ground. Spider-man swings through the air. You can't do this on a TV budget.

And I think there is a lot the movies didn't really explore regarding Spider-man.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39768: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:33:42 AM

Maybe Peter was a superhero in the sixties who quit decades ago, and is only now passing the torch.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39769: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:34:43 AM

If there have been publicly active superheroes since the sixties, Thor's arrival and the Chitauri Invasion wouldn't have been as world-shattering.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#39770: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:35:57 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]Eh, people are advocating Peter Parker should be around before Miles because, in the comics, Miles was heavily influenced by Peter's death. However, in comics, Peter wasn't around for 10-15 years. He was around for, like, 2 years or so.

Lets say that he just came into existence now. Ant-Man is the first time we heard of him because it is the first time a movie takes place after he debuted. By the time the Spider-Man movie is scheduled to be released, he would have been around just about as much time as Ultimate Peter Parker had when he died to inspire Miles.

edited 2nd Aug '15 9:36:12 AM by Heatth

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39771: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:37:22 AM

That only really works if we're planning to introduce Peter by killing him off, though, and that seems like a waste of a perfectly good character.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#39772: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:40:12 AM

[up]True. I am just pointing out that "there is no time for a established Spider-Man" argument is simply not true. You don't need a Spider-Man who have been conveniently ignored for years for Peter to receive the Pym treatment.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39773: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:45:22 AM

Have Peter not exist in the first place. In-universe, Peter could be a made-up superhero created by comic book companies and film studios, in order to have their own "real" superhero to capitalise on. "Peter Parker" would be an actor paid off to pretend to be a superhero for the purpose of giving their outrageous stories credibility. Miles Morales is inspired by the in-universe Spider-Man media phenomenon, and is disappointed when he finds out it's Based on a Great Big Lie.

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#39774: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:49:03 AM

Who lost an arm in Daredevil?
The Japanese guy that Stick killed at the beginning of his episode.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#39775: Aug 2nd 2015 at 11:09:25 AM

Ah, right.

Speaking of Stick, apparently he's supposed to be in his late 90's.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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