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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39476: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:11:23 PM

Except flight played a big part in why Janet didn't die falling off that missile, and he had decades to add it, and really, why the hell not? He had the technology for years, considering the Wasp suit.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39477: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:17:18 PM

Janet "died" in 1987, he quit SHIELD in 1989, and it's implied he never touched the suit since then. So he wouldn't really have had any time to add wings.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39478: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:32:34 PM

He had enough time while creeping on Scott...

Also, one annoying thing about upholding the letter of the law, but not the spirit: Scott gets arrested for breaking in to Hank Pym's house... except he's only seen exiting Pym's house, and there's apparently just some anonymous tip that he's breaking in. But then Hank Pym himself comes and represents himself as Scott's lawyer. So he didn't steal anything that they know of, his "I was only returning something I stole" confession could be recanted and thrown out of court anyway, and there's no complaining victim. So they're going on an anonymous tip that someone with an admittedly hard past, who was trying to turn over a new leaf, and that they all hoped would, was stealing something? That's kinda Lawful Stupid.

edited 28th Jul '15 10:36:48 PM by wanderlustwarrior

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#39479: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:35:42 PM

[up] Did he?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#39480: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:35:43 PM

Random moments in MCU history that were actually Ant-Man all along:

Tony didn't actually accidentally disable Obidiah Stane's targetting system at the end of Iron Man. Ant-Man was there, got inside his suit, and disabled it himself before jumping clear of the explosion.

Selvig actually did call Hank when SHIELD stole borrowed Jane's research. He got there right when the Destroyer fight was going on and hid on Thor's shoulder at the end for recon purposes, only to end up accidentally hitching a ride to Asgard until Thor finally returned in Avengers. He did do his part in the final fight though: sensing that Loki was a dick and being a bit of a dick himself, he personally pushed Loki's grip on Thor's hammer loose at the end - which only looked intentional from the outside.

The first thing Hank did when he finally got back to Earth was root for Thor to kick Tony's ass during their fight. The second thing he did was geek out over Captain America being back. Being a dick, he stole Coulson's Captain America trading cards from his locker with plans to get them signed himself, but got lost and accidentally ended up taking a wrong turn into Loki's cell during the escape, where he was forced to slip the cards into Coulson's suit to avoid detection. Since the cards got all bloody and ruined, he was forced to abandon his plan.

Naturally, Hank wanted nothing to do with Asgardians by that point, but then Selvig ended up going cuckoo-bananas thanks to Loki. He was just about to bail him out of whatever ward Selvig was detained in in Dark World himself when Darcy showed up. He did, however, stick around to deal with the Frost Beast, since nobody else seemed to be taking care of it. He shrunk it down to the size of a puppy, and was forced to name it Snowflake by Hope after she saw Frozen for the first time. A few years later, it was adopted by Cassie Lang. It and the Giant Ant get along perfectly.

Hank was a good friend of the President, so when he got kidnapped by "The Mandarin" Hank decided to go out of retirement to help. In the end, he ultimately defeated Killian by shrinking him when he was healing after being knocked out by Pepper. Upon realizing he was the size of a penny, Killian freaked out and promptly exploded with the force of a handheld lighter. Hank then went to go watch Tony's operation, and stole a piece of heart-shrapnel when the doctors weren't looking because why not. He uses it as a toothpick.

Finally, Hank is the real reason Ultron's AI was so fucked up. In his definitely not obsessive pent-up paranoia and resentment towards the Stark family "distrust" of Stark, he occasionally sneaks into Stark Industries and spies on them. You know, just to make sure Stark isn't spying on him (incidentally, this is the reason he just so happened to be aware that Obidiah Stane had gone bonkers in Iron Man 1). The most recent time, he accidentally jostled a few wires while they were analyzing the Mind Gem, resulting in the world's favorite murderbot. Hank remains unaware of this.

This idea got more and more complicated the more I thought about it. tongue

edited 28th Jul '15 10:56:04 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39481: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:54:15 PM

[up] I think you are confusing Hope Pym and Cassie Lang.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#39482: Jul 28th 2015 at 10:56:10 PM

Fixed.

The first time was intended to be Hope, because it's funny.

edited 28th Jul '15 10:56:25 PM by KnownUnknown

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#39483: Jul 29th 2015 at 12:00:12 AM

[up][up][up]Also because he is a dick, he somehow help cap by lifting the hammer a little bit, just to ser Thor face.

Also since hank made ultron in the cómic and here his rival tony stark did it...anyone think it will be a pretty good joke?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#39484: Jul 29th 2015 at 2:12:59 AM

[up][up][up][up]Best. Theory. Ever.

Especially love the Snowflake part^^

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#39485: Jul 29th 2015 at 5:52:28 AM

[up] Agreed. Now I want to see a whole movie that's just Hank Pym dicking around in other heroes' movies.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#39486: Jul 29th 2015 at 6:03:02 AM

Ant-Man: The Forrest Gump of the MCU.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#39487: Jul 29th 2015 at 6:35:09 AM

Hank is a bit of a dick in Ant-Man.

As noted, he could have just refused to press charges and Scott, even with priors, probably would have been let go.

But he instead helped him break out of jail, insuring that Scott was pressured to help with the heist.

Which ended up backfiring when 'mysterious escape from jail' was noticed by Cross.

Good job, Hank.

It really is the escape from jail thing that's the sticking point. With Hank not pressing charges and Hope coming around, Scott still would have been in trouble for breaking out. Its super illegal even if you're innocent. Which Scott wasn't but whatever. That's why Paxton covered for him by claiming Scott was processed and released.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#39488: Jul 29th 2015 at 6:55:23 AM

One could easily make the case that Hank's refusal to just let Hope don the suit jeopardised the mission and caused all of the mayhem of the third act. If he hadn't wasted time on training an outsider, they could have gotten the mission over with long before Cross ever suspected that Hope was in on it.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39489: Jul 29th 2015 at 6:56:59 AM

I would say that Ant-man is the Mac Gyver of the MCU...

Honestly, was I the only one who suddenly had the Mac Gyver Music in the ear during the break-in? (The thing with the glue works, btw).

edited 29th Jul '15 6:57:38 AM by Swanpride

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39490: Jul 29th 2015 at 7:41:36 AM

Also, one annoying thing about upholding the letter of the law, but not the spirit:

It's even more annoying than you think.

  1. Hank could have gotten him out of jail that day if he just went in and refused to press charges. As the owner of the house, he has a legal right to say no crime was committed and this was all a misunderstanding. There was no need to break Scott out of jail.
  2. Scott's confession of returning something he stole would never hold up in court, because he said it before his Miranda Rights were read. That's what the "right to remain silent" is about; once your Miranda Rights are read, anything you say can be held against you, but anything said before it is off the record. Even if it's a confession to a crime, that just gives the police probable cause to look for evidence they can use in court. Even under the Miranda Rights, a confession is not considered damning evidence, because of the possibility of false confession; it can only be used to support other evidence, and is considered heresay if admitted on its own.

Scott was in a holding cell when we caught back up with him. He would have been kept there for a day or two while the prosecutor decided whether or not to even go to trial or just let him walk, and there is not a snowball's chance in hell he would ever serve a day in prison for what transpired unless Hank pressed charges.

By the time he actually met Hank, the only crime he could be convicted of is breaking out of jail in the first place, which he did on Hank's urging. This makes Hank's offer to help clear him of his legal troubles ring hollow; he manipulated Scott into a situation in which Scott would be completely dependent on Hank to stay out of jail for crimes Hank set him up to commit. He did this in order to get Scott to commit more crimes on his behalf in exchange for absolving him of the crimes Hank had manipulated him into committing.

That's some mafia shit right there.

edited 29th Jul '15 7:49:20 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#39491: Jul 29th 2015 at 7:48:47 AM

So what it boils down to is that Hank basically forced Scott into committing hella crimes.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39492: Jul 29th 2015 at 7:49:24 AM

One could easily make the case that Hank's refusal to just let Hope don the suit jeopardised the mission and caused all of the mayhem of the third act. If he hadn't wasted time on training an outsider, they could have gotten the mission over with long before Cross ever suspected that Hope was in on it.

Long before Cross finished the Yellowjacket too. In the time it took to train Scott, Cross was able to present the Yellowjacket to prospective buyers, complete his research, and then set up an arms deal with Hydra. Had they gone with Hope, the climax would have gone something like this.

  • CROSS: You destroyed my research! I will have my revenge! *Yellowjacket!*
  • YELLOWJACKET: *shrinks for the first time, turns into flesh goop, splats on the ground*
  • HANK: ...well, that worked out better than could be expected.

[up] More or less. Fresh out of jail, Scott hooked up with a man who coerced him into committing several more crimes, never acquired a steady job outside of his criminal partnership, and...that equals a redemption story? Somehow?

edited 29th Jul '15 7:54:41 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39493: Jul 29th 2015 at 7:56:58 AM

To be fair, he would've gone straight, if not for friggin' Baskin Robbins.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39494: Jul 29th 2015 at 8:20:46 AM

Yeah, but Baskin Robbins always finds out.

I bet they know he was Ant-Man.

  • "Alright Mr...Estevez, is it? I've reviewed your application and things look good, except for one thing. I don't like that you're secretly Bruce Banner and have been lying this entire time. I understand why you did it, but I can't have you Hulking out in my store."
  • "How did you know about that?"
  • "We're Baskin Robbins. Oh, and on your way out the door, you should probably check in on that blood transfusion you did for your cousin, I don't think it's going well."

edited 29th Jul '15 8:23:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39496: Jul 29th 2015 at 8:41:33 AM

"Here, an extra large portion for the our hero." "What are you talking about?" "No worries, Mr. Murdoc. Baskin Robins always finds out."

MalcolmBelmontS Since: May, 2015
#39497: Jul 29th 2015 at 9:29:27 AM

"new comic universe will be a great jumping on point for cinematic fans"

Really Marvel

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#39498: Jul 29th 2015 at 9:40:41 AM

I thought Cross' problem was shrinking someone while not inside a protective case. Then again, magic particles. As for Scott's time in a holding cell. His ex's fiancé had filled the paper work out to say Scott was processed properly. Legally, Scott's in the clear for the the breaking and entering and returning that got him arrested. Everything that followed is just Superhero Black-Ops that everyone else gets a free pass on. Mostly.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39499: Jul 29th 2015 at 9:44:05 AM

Really Marvel

Do you have an issue with making comics more accessible or having jumping on points?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39500: Jul 29th 2015 at 9:56:48 AM

[up][up] Yeah, but he only did that at the end of the movie to reward Scott for recklessly endangering his daughter with his criminal activities.

At the time Hank broke Scott out of jail, it was totally a crime, and a completely unnecessary one at that.

edited 29th Jul '15 9:57:02 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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