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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#39426: Jul 28th 2015 at 1:22:26 PM

In fairness, a draft creates baby boomers.

Nobody wants to see that happen again.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#39427: Jul 28th 2015 at 1:26:48 PM

To put it blunly: civil war have a very american take on the concept, since the whole think was suposed to be the comic version of 9/11: a big thing that change everything and divded opinions(at least until the writer themselves star to fight about it and ruin the whole thing), so in this context, draft=evil as tobias point out

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39428: Jul 28th 2015 at 1:30:00 PM

[up][up][up]Did anyone say it worked perfectly fine in the past?

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#39429: Jul 28th 2015 at 1:35:26 PM

[up][up][up]So you're saying Civil War is going to be followed by the first ever official MCU porno?

...BRING ON THE WAR!

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#39430: Jul 28th 2015 at 1:40:29 PM

The speedster was punching robots while the super-soldier, Norse god, and flying tank were grabbing people from falling buildings. The Avengers are terrible at resource management.

I figured that came from still being a bunch of solo heroes at their core (which is interesting, because that's more what the Justice League is known for). While they're capable of acting as a team, all of them - especially Thor and Iron Man - have a kind of mindset that it's their responsibility to take care of everything they can and will do anything from saving civilians to fighting supervillains, even if someone else is on it, unless they have something specific that needs doing.

Sort of like how in Avengers 1, Cap gave them all specific orders but once they did that for a bit all of them kind of broke off and did their own thing instead. The only person who stuck to what they were supposed to do was Hawkeye, who only stopped when he was physically incapable of doing it any more.

edited 28th Jul '15 1:41:03 PM by KnownUnknown

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39431: Jul 28th 2015 at 1:52:01 PM

Well, Hulk also did what he was told. He smashed Thor momentarily.
And Iron Man followed Cap's orders by taking direction from Hawkeye via their magical invisible headsets.
Cap's orders were only long term assignments for some of them, and he delegated any deviations from the plan to Hawkeye, who was in the best position and with the best ability to see changes. Of course, thanks to the magic of no-budget invisible headsets and low-budget Iron Man HUD, we just didn't see that in action as much.

One thing that Age of Ultron did well was show specific teamwork moves.

edited 28th Jul '15 1:53:29 PM by wanderlustwarrior

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#39432: Jul 28th 2015 at 2:16:02 PM

ironman vs captain america but the real fight is avengers vs zemo.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#39433: Jul 28th 2015 at 2:46:48 PM

Just want to point out, for anyone who's still concerned that the movie SHRA will involve secret identities, Feige already Jossed that immediately after the film was announced. And with the same reasoning that's already been pointed out a ton: the movie superheroes as a rule don't even have "secret identities" for the most part. And I think the official press announcements indicated the SHRA will be putting limitations on existing heroes' agency to prevent more violence, not drafting them (which would probably cause more).

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39434: Jul 28th 2015 at 2:55:36 PM

They already indicated that with the second post-credits scene in Ant-Man referring to "the Accords." I think the SHRA equivalent will be a multinational treaty specifying the places the Avengers can operate and the places where they cannot, thus limiting their effectiveness.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#39435: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:19:22 PM

The explicit description we have is.

“Captain America: Civil War” picks up where “Avengers: Age of Ultron” left off, as Steve Rogers leads the new team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. After another international incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability and a governing body to determine when to enlist the services of the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers while they try to protect the world from a new and nefarious villain.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#39436: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:26:08 PM

Kind of guessing we aren't getting morally ambiguous Zemo then.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39437: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:26:32 PM

When was Zemo ever morally ambiguous? He was always an evil bastard.

edited 28th Jul '15 3:26:36 PM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#39438: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:30:08 PM

So basically, the Avengers have successfully privatized world peace, but in doing so, they've made the world nervous which has caused both their motives and competency to be called into question.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#39439: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:39:39 PM

[up][up]

Zemo (the second I mean) was goodish at some points in the Thunderbolts and during that and afterward his "evil dick" behavior has been done for goodish motives.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#39440: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:40:08 PM

[up][up][up] In one of the Avengers/Thunderbolts crossovers, I've heard.

He wants to make amends to Captain America by taking over the world and giving it to Cap.

edited 28th Jul '15 3:40:22 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#39441: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:41:10 PM

So still evil, because world conquest. For a good cause.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39442: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:42:40 PM

[up][up][up][up]Seriously Tony, how did saying that sentence seem like either a good idea, or actually possible? Idiot.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#39443: Jul 28th 2015 at 3:50:01 PM

[up][up]

Yeah. Basically. There was one point where he had an actual Heel–Face Turn, but what's more important I think is that his horrendously evil behavior tends to have good motivations (or at least what he thinks of as good).

Like for example (going off of second hand comments; haven't read the Brubaker story), the original story that introduce's the Janice Lincoln Beetle has her working for Zemo and (as I understand it) administering some kind of nanobomb to Bucky so that he'll end up as an unwitting suicide bomber and blow up SHIELD. Obviously not a very nice thing to do. The problem is, the original arc has Zemo doing it because he's an evil Nazi, and he was sort of a good guy at this point in the comics. While played for laughs, the retconned version in Superior Foes of Spider-Man has it that Zemo wants the world to know that Bucky was the Winter Soldier and did bad stuff because he's angry that no one gives credit to his attempts to reform. Still horrendously evil, but the point is that Zemo thinks of himself as a good guy.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#39444: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:23:41 PM

Wasn't Zemo "good" during Moonstoned and Heroic Age? He told Songbird he would save the world, but in that moment she would have also betrayed him. She did it anyway after being told this fact, thus leaving Zemo in the time stream. Then he learned Bucky became Captain America once he came back. He felt ashamed Bucky could still be considered a hero despite all past sins. Zemo let Bucky escape back to America where the govemrent awaited to put him on trail.

However, none of this takes away his megalomaniac behavior. He is still heartless. He wants nothing more than revenge against Captain America. Lucky unlike nearly every Hydra leader done thus far, he is more patient, forward-thinking, and innovative to plan and accomplish his schemes. It's a matter of adapting that part into live action. I doubt Marvel will give us someone more savvy than Loki. It doesn't take a genius to see the movies lack a rouge who leaves a huge impact on the Avenger's PR status.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:39:56 PM by xbimpy

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#39445: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:24:23 PM

It's also worth noting that Zemo eventually got a new, beautiful face, but then gave it up in a Heroic Sacrifice to save Steve.

He's someone who WANTS to be a hero and thinks of himself as one, the problem is he's also an arrogant dickhead who thinks the rest of the world is too stupid to be left without his control.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#39446: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:37:18 PM

So Zemo's in love with Steve?

I ship it.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39447: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:39:11 PM

Wait, are we talking about Original Zemo or Grandson Zemo?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39448: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:39:26 PM

[up][up][up]Sounds like Doctor Doom. I was already thinking about Doomworld and the Panther God earlier in the thread.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:39:40 PM by wanderlustwarrior

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#39449: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:40:52 PM

Baron Helmut Zemo?

- “I am a Zemo. And a Zemo never surrenders. All defeats are merely setbacks, all enemies merely obstacles to be overcome. It is my destiny—my birthright—to triumph. To rule. And rule I shall."

edited 28th Jul '15 4:41:21 PM by xbimpy

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#39450: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:42:12 PM

@alliterator

Grandson, which is who I assumed would be in the films, given Daniel Bruhl's age. I should have mentioned in my original post that it is possible that the MCU version will be like the EMH one- a composite that is styled along the lines of the younger Zemo, but is completely irredeemably evil like the older Zemo.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:42:50 PM by Hodor2


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