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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#39201: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:28:05 PM

I agree that there should be a planned ending.

Hmm... Maybe, after Infinity War, give movies a rest for a few years, but stick to TV and Netflix type shows, build up a few characters, and then get back to crossover movies.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39202: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:35:39 PM

Um, no, why would they do that? Even if they only allow themselves to do individual trilogies for characters, that still means they need to do the 3rd movie for Guardians of the Galaxy and the 2nd and 3rd movies for Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Inhumans. So that's another eleven movies right there.

edited 26th Jul '15 6:35:59 PM by alliterator

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#39203: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:37:08 PM

They don't need to do anything.

None of the movies are inherently entitled to sequels or third movies.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39204: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:41:18 PM

[up][up]The franchise can't be profitable forever. Eventually it will have to end. I'd rather it was a planned ending so they can do a proper Grand Finale instead of having it be Cut Short.

edit: I don't know why but I have a feeling phase 5 would be a good point. By then we'll be approaching the 20 year mark and they'll have 30+ films.

edited 26th Jul '15 6:44:23 PM by Kostya

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39205: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:44:20 PM

we don't even know how successful films like black panther or doctor strange are going to be anyway. i'm sure they'll do fine but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll get sequels. i.e incredible hulk still only has one movie.

edited 26th Jul '15 6:48:49 PM by wehrmacht

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39206: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:50:04 PM

None of the movies are inherently entitled to sequels or third movies.

Right, but so far all the films (excluding Incredible Hulk) are having trilogies. And I don't know if the reason Incredible Hulk did have any sequels is because it underperformed or because Universal owns the distribution rights.

The franchise can't be profitable forever.

Yes, eventually it will produce a bomb. But, at that point, the franchise might have so many profitable movies that it can absorb a bomb and work around it. I mean, generally, when a bomb kills off a franchise, it only has two or three movies in it (Batman & Robin was the fourth movie, Spider-Man 3 was the third). Right now, the MCU has twelve movies, none of them bombs.

So perhaps they produce an Inhumans movie and it bombs. So then they discard their Inhumans plans and move it to another property.

edited 26th Jul '15 6:52:23 PM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#39207: Jul 26th 2015 at 6:57:55 PM

It'd rather suck if the franchise ends right as they finally start using some diverse leads.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39208: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:00:10 PM

I'm not even talking about a singular bomb. Genre trends eventually die. Superheroes have been incredibly resilient up until this point but eventually people will get sick of them and move on to whatever the next popular thing is.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39209: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:09:10 PM

Genre trends eventually die.

People have been predicting the end of the superhero movie for years and years now. The thing of it is, Marvel movies generally tend to go for something else beyond simply "superhero movie," towards a different genre: Winter Solder was a political thriller, Guardians of the Galaxy was a space opera, Ant-Man was a heist film. Sure, they all had elements of superhero in them, but they were different enough from what came before that you can't really place all three in the same genre.

As for genre threads that haven't died: there are still a ton of romantic comedies and horror movies and thrillers. Really, when people say that "genre trends die," what they usually point to is Westerns, which became popular in the '40s and '50s and then slowly died out. However, there are still Westerns today.

I mean, there's also an argument as to what "genre" is: was film noir a genre or was that genre mystery/thriller? Because there are still tons of mysteries/thrillers, but no more film noirs (though there are occasionally neo-noirs).

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#39210: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:19:30 PM

I'd say superhero films dying is predicted less because of Westerns and more because of blockbusters, generally, as a phenomenon—space operas, disaster films, shoot-em-ups, all viable at some point, now mostly gone, largely replaced by the superhero.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39211: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:21:18 PM

well genre films never really die permanently. superhero films endured the bombs that were batman and robin and steel and are going strong even now. we still get westerns, space operas, and other things, just not as frequently.

edited 26th Jul '15 7:22:03 PM by wehrmacht

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39212: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:25:41 PM

I'm not saying they'll die off entirely but I think it's silly to think we'll never reach a point where Marvel won't be turning enough of a profit to produce three per year.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39213: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:26:23 PM

space operas, disaster films, shoot-em-ups, all viable at some point, now mostly gone, largely replaced by the superhero.

But, again, couldn't Guardians of the Galaxy be classified as a "space opera" rather than a "superhero" film? What actually classifies a superhero film? Does it have to feature crime fighting? That disqualifies most of the Marvel movies. Does it have to feature people with extraordinary powers? That disqualifies Batman (and Captain America to an extent). Does it just mean "movies adapted from comics"? In which case, what about movies adapted from non-superhero comics?

This is all to say: genre is infinitely more diverse and audiences can probably handle a bunch of them with a larger structure of "Marvel movies."

I mean, how many Pixar movies have come out? How many of them bombed?

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39214: Jul 26th 2015 at 7:32:35 PM

i think a superhero film is one of those "you know it when you see it" things, not necessarily all that easy to define but perfectly discernible.

even then superhero films can be pretty different from each other. the burton and nolan batman movies are pretty much nothing alike, for example. and both are completely different from the richard donner films that preceded them. and all of them are different from the general style of film-making in the mcu. etc.

it does help that marvel began incorporating different genres into their films, with winter soldier being a political thriller and gotg being a space opera. does a lot to make them more distinct.

i want to be excited for doctor strange because i love fantasy (and i don't like the first thor movie, haven't seen the second), but the casting decisions have left me kinda tepid.

edited 26th Jul '15 7:32:59 PM by wehrmacht

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#39215: Jul 26th 2015 at 10:01:38 PM

Well I just saw antman and is...entretain, that it

It clearly didnt take risks here, only hank and hope have some form of devolptment(which is bad for her because clearly she should have more action) while the rest is static, the villian isnt very important but is not that generic or silly(thanks ultron) the jokes works fine because it was made to the correct chararter, Luis...look I dont know other but as a latín men, he was so over the top it become endaring.

So for me is the standar movie, not to grear but it dosent disapoint.

Also for vídeo game tropers, in the only who think this movie could be an awsome game? It have the visuals for it

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39216: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:08:09 AM

yeah you could probably make a pretty interesting game out of ant-man, though i wonder how the transition between different sizes would be handled.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#39217: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:16:00 AM

That would be pretty hard if you wanted to let the player shrink and grow at will. You'd essentially have to make versions of the level to represent different scales. The combat would be pretty cool though. Like you can switch from size to size to do different combos.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39218: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:19:25 AM

We'll see how long the MCU will be around. One thing for sure, it won't happen from one day to another, and everyone who keeps claiming that "the bubble will bust" looks fairly ridiculous because those claims have been around for way too long. How often have we heard the prediction that the next one will fail?

Concerning sequels: I like Ant-man, but I am not sure if I want to see Ant-Man. I never wanted to see Thor 2 either, I wanted to see a Loki movie. And this time around I want a Wasp sequel. The story-arc of Ant-man, which was pretty much about reconnecting with his daughter feels concluded, and I think he will now work better in the combination with other characters.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#39219: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:25:17 AM

Yeah, that's how I feel. In one of the most recent Ant Man ongoing comics (before all the rebooting), he had a really funny job interview at Stark Industries that could kill as a movie scene.

As for a 'bubble': You don't get brownie points for predicting that the MCU will eventually get less popular and drop off the pop culture map. People who go "This will be the failure. No, this one. No, THIS one," just annoy me. Watch them or don't. And if they stop being relevant, don't expect a pat on the hat for predicting the obvious.

edited 27th Jul '15 12:34:09 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#39220: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:43:05 AM

We have an Ant-Man video game. It's called Pikmin.

Okay, you can't grow bigger, but you're a tiny guy commanding little critters to nab stuff for you; it's close enough!

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#39221: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:43:30 AM

[up][up] People who say that also seem kind of pretentious. Like they are saying, "Oh, this superhero craze is just a fad and soon audiences will get tired and go back to real movies."

And considering that Marvel movies now take up three of the top ten highest-grossing movies, I'm thinking they aren't going away anytime soon.

edited 27th Jul '15 12:43:44 AM by alliterator

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#39222: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:45:45 AM

[up][up] Dude, a Pikmin-style Ant-Man game is a brilliant idea! Why did nobody ever think of that before?

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#39223: Jul 27th 2015 at 12:48:14 AM

So an ideal Ant Man game would be Pikmin-style puzzle solving, and Arkham-style fighting.

[up][up]You also have the fanboys with a point to prove.

edited 27th Jul '15 12:48:47 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#39224: Jul 27th 2015 at 6:37:54 AM

Late on some points, but I can't help that this thread moves fast.

Regarding "Marvel fatigue", I'll admit that was one of my big problems with Age Of Ultron. As good as the movie was, everything just felt very samey, and I left the theater wondering if I was actually starting to get too accustomed to the MCU. Ant-Man proved me wrong on that front.

Regarding Ant-Man being a riskier choice than Got G, I personally think they're two different kinds of risk. Got G's main risk was taking a group of pretty-obscure C-list heroes and making them recognizable stars. Ant-Man's risk, meanwhile, was taking a Troubled Production and a seemingly-silly character and making it work. And I think they succeeded on both fronts.

And the "bubble" isn't going to pop anytime soon. The investment leading to Infinity War is too strong, the train too stuck in motion. The fear, I feel, is going to only become justified once Infinity War ends and Thanos is dealt with. Because the big question there is very simple: where do they go now?

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#39225: Jul 27th 2015 at 7:10:21 AM

The thing is, I think Ant-Man proves they don't have to go anywhere. At least, they don't need something that tops Infinity War.

I think Ant-Man was more than just proof of concept for a typically-mocked character, or that they can make a troubled production still work, and that it was also proof they can lower the stakes immediately after a huge movie, and people will still like it. Considering the number of people saying something to the effect of "This is exactly what they needed after Age of Ultron", it gives me more hope than ever that they aren't going to falter after Infinity War.


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