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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#39076: Jul 25th 2015 at 1:36:37 PM

[up][up]Very good point^^ My brother do think so, and his argument is that with so many superhero movies and remakes there is no room for original stories. Take that how you will. Personally I am happy with these movies.

You know who I would like to see as the villain should they make an Iron Man 4 (aside from the Real Mandarin obviously)? The Living Laser. He has always been one of my favourite Iron Man villains conceptually, he would make a nice change to all the armored villains and I am sure they can make him work. And don't go tell me it's not realistic enough, because after what they did in Extremis with Iron Man 3....

edited 25th Jul '15 1:36:48 PM by Theokal3

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39077: Jul 25th 2015 at 1:47:13 PM

You know what I am really sick off? The claim that Marvel movies ruin creativity in Hollywood. I mean, what is more creative than a talking tree and a final fight in a bedroom. I have seen so called "original" movies which had less creativity to offer.

i mean it's kinda hard to deny that most of the marvel movies have been pretty similar in directorial style and overall feel despite the differing genres. groot is cool and i like gotg, but gotg is also one of the more interesting movies in the mcu thanks to the narrative device of using old pop songs to both convey mood and tie into quill's character.

i don't really buy that they're ruining creativity in hollywood mostly because the type of safe, mass-appeal lighthearted action blockbuster style of movie has been around for a long time before marvel. at the end of the day directors will make the movies they want to make, because many of them are artists and care more about their artistic ambitions than just creating something that will sell.

just look at guillermo del toro and how he constantly fights studios to make movies the way he wants, even at the expense of budget cuts and lower marketability.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39078: Jul 25th 2015 at 1:49:57 PM

I don't think that Marvel movies are more similar than every other movie is similar to each other. And it is pretty easy to deny that they have all the same tone. Just put Thor, Captain America, The Winter Soldier, Got G and Ant-Man beside each other. Those are stylistically very different movies.

edited 25th Jul '15 1:50:18 PM by Swanpride

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#39079: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:05:12 PM

I'd say Marvel films have been getting better. I didn't think a dang thing between The Incredible Hulk and The Avengers was above average, whereas the only "eh" movie since then was Dark World. Everything else has been fantastic.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#39080: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:05:44 PM

I dunno, while the first two thirds of their films tend to be interesting the MCU has a problem with a formulaic third act. Both Cap films, both Avengers films, Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Guardians of the Galaxy, all of them involved lots of fighting, CGI things flying in the air and blowing up and/or giant ships crashing into the ground. Iron Man 2 is borderline. Iron Man 1, Hulk, and Thor 1 didn't, but the first two were when Marvel Studios was still finding its feet and the conclusion of Thor 1 with the Destroyer was pretty tepid.

Still haven't seen Ant-Man yet but the fact that doesn't happen sounds like a point in its favor.

edited 25th Jul '15 2:10:13 PM by AlleyOop

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39081: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:08:53 PM

the winter soldier and gotg are stylistically different compared to all the other films, yes. however i don't really find most of the phase 1 movies that different in terms of style and execution from each other. maybe i'd feel differently now if i were to rewatch them but that's pretty much how i felt when i was watching them years ago.

compare that to say, the tim burton batman movies which have a distinct directorial style completely different from any other superhero movie (note i am not saying they are good movies), it's easy to see how stuff like the mcu ends up blending together in people's minds.

I'd say Marvel films have been getting better. I didn't think a dang thing between The Incredible Hulk and The Avengers was above average, whereas the only "eh" movie since then was Dark World. Everything else has been fantastic.

i agree actually. i think winter soldier by itself is probably better than anything in phase 1.

edited 25th Jul '15 2:16:10 PM by wehrmacht

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39082: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:16:43 PM

I think the The First Avenger is a vastly underrated movie. I enjoy it even more than Iron Man 1.

But I agree that Phase 2 has been stronger than Phase 1 overall. Winter Soldier and Got G are easily the best movies of the franchise so far, and The Dark World was the only "what were they thinking" movie for me.

edited 25th Jul '15 2:17:12 PM by Swanpride

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#39083: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:20:02 PM

i think first avenger might be a movie i enjoy more on a second viewing. i always thought that after iron man 1 it was the best phase 1 film, definitely more enjoyable overall than Thor or Incredible Hulk. it probably had the most memorable soundtrack in all of phase 1, largely thanks to star-spangled man being a massive Ear Worm

edited 25th Jul '15 2:20:51 PM by wehrmacht

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39084: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:23:51 PM

[up]Well, that is Alan Menken for you. But it also had visually the most to offer with the 1940s vibe, and had some really thoughtful touches. Like the moment when Steve grieves because of Bucky in the Bar in which he once celebrated his rescue, and what was once a vibrant place is now a bombed out ruin because of the war. Or the sudden cut from the stage show to the hard reality of war.

edited 25th Jul '15 2:24:33 PM by Swanpride

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#39085: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:29:18 PM

The First Avenger is my favorite Phase 1 solo film after Iron Man 1. It had its share of flaws, mostly with pacing and the second half, and the action scenes were kind of an afterthought. But the writing and acting were strong throughout. And the period setting added a lot of charm without becoming campy.

edited 25th Jul '15 2:31:53 PM by AlleyOop

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#39086: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:34:33 PM

[up]Funny, I remember seeing an internet reviewer who called it one of the worst movies, saying Those Wacky Nazis was complete Narm and outdated and Cap was a stereotypical bland Boy Scout. Before you ask: I completely disagree with him on that.

edited 25th Jul '15 2:35:31 PM by Theokal3

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39087: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:41:28 PM

[up]I am German, which kind of makes me an authority on this trope, and the movie did something really smart: For one they made clear that The Red Skull was more an off-shot of the Nazis and not a representation of them, and they added this one line that the first country the Nazis conquered was their own. Honestly, they dealt with the source material in the best way possible and even throw in some criticism of propaganda into it.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#39088: Jul 25th 2015 at 2:59:16 PM

[up]Actually that's my opinion. I really liked how they made fun of the propaganda angle of Cap (which was the reason I used to dislike him before actually checking his comics and movies), and as you said, HYDRA wasn't technically part of the Nazi anymore at that point.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39089: Jul 25th 2015 at 3:07:21 PM

[up]Yeah, I absolutely despised Captain America before I saw the movie.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#39090: Jul 25th 2015 at 3:20:11 PM

[up]Understandable^^ For any non-american fan, his very concept can easily be irritating, and his powers can easily feel bland compared to characters like Spider-Man and Iron Man. Now however, I do understand the appeal of the character and his role in the Marvel Universe.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39091: Jul 25th 2015 at 3:32:44 PM

When he's written well Cap generally avoids the pitfalls you'd expect for someone with his name. Fortunately the MCU is one of the good portrayals.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#39092: Jul 25th 2015 at 3:52:03 PM

Even in the comics he's generally not as bad as Shallow Parodies make him out to be (Ultimates version, maybe), and hasn't been used as an American propaganda piece since his revival in the 60s or whenever it was. He's generally more of a mouthpiece for progressivism than nationalism. Hell, after the Watergate scandal he actually QUIT being Captain America for a while because he thought supporting the American government was betraying his ideals.

edited 25th Jul '15 3:54:21 PM by AlleyOop

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39093: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:00:19 PM

Can you blame him? Marvel Nixon was in charge of the Secret Empire.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39094: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:07:49 PM

[up]I hope that they will adapt that storyline for Agent Carter.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#39095: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:09:45 PM

Carter is set in the 40s. Nixon wasn't president till the 70s.

edited 25th Jul '15 4:10:18 PM by Eagal

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#39096: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:10:34 PM

Marvel Nixon was quickly retconned into someone else, so the same basic premise still works.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#39097: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:13:09 PM

I don't think Marvel is going to be too interested in making the President a villain. The comics could get away with that because they weren't mainstream in the 70s but now it's different. At most they'd make the VP evil.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#39098: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:13:18 PM

Plus, Agent Carter can easily make time-jumps between seasons.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#39099: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:20:13 PM

Will Peggy still be able to kick ass as effectively whilst...what? 60 odd years young?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39100: Jul 25th 2015 at 4:21:47 PM

[up]x6 If they did, I don't think it would make it onto national TV unscathed. Doing it in the comics is one thing, but to actually make a (in)famous president out to be a Supervillain in a medium that regularly gets millions of viewers? I'm not sure if they'd have the guts to go through with it. (Or, more importantly, if the network would allow it.)

edited 25th Jul '15 4:22:16 PM by kkhohoho


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