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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38901: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:38:42 PM

Whiplash also fought differently from Iron Man, even if he did get a suit at the end.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38902: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:39:51 PM

So did Loki and Malekith from Thors films.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38903: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:42:17 PM

And I'm pretty sure none of the Avengers were shiny chrome robots.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38904: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:42:51 PM

[up][up]Yeah.

Though I get what he's getting at there.

[up]Well, Vision KINDA parallels Ultron? He is a Vibranium-based machine, he just isn't chrome.

Anyway, I asked this a couple of pages ago but didn't get an answer; at the start of Ant-Man's final battle on the toyset, the ants that rushed into battle alongside him were the bullet ants, yes? They didn't look like red, crazy, or carpenter ants leaving only those by process of elimination, but I don't know if the movie featured ants outside of those four.

edited 23rd Jul '15 3:43:35 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#38905: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:51:57 PM

Well, most villains in the MCU are the negative version of someone (Loki is the big exception, because he wasn't created to be the negative version of Thor, but to be the opposite of him), but it's not always necessarily the hero. Alexander Pierce it the counterpart to Fury, not Cap, and Ultron is the counterpart to Vision, not any of the original Avengers.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#38906: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:54:28 PM

Cap got the Winter Soldier, though, and you could argue that Ultron is meant to be an Evil Counterpart of Iron Man, again.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#38907: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:56:34 PM

I see Winter Soldier as more of a foil to Cap than a straight up "negative" of him.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#38908: Jul 23rd 2015 at 3:56:37 PM

after having actually seen ant-man, i don't find hank pym an entirely bad person, but i understand why people might dislike him.

fun movie by the way, i'd watch it again.

edited 23rd Jul '15 4:00:49 PM by wehrmacht

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#38909: Jul 23rd 2015 at 4:02:58 PM

I agree that the MCU's got a problem with overreliance on Shadow Archetypes. I'd say even with the firepowers that Killian's background makes him still guilty in the same way that Venom is to Spidey despite their differences.

Civil War seems like it will probably buck the trend though as Steve and Tony have very little in common (and that probably contributes to their animosity), and assuming they stick somewhat reasonably to the source material it's unlikely Zemo will be a retread of any of the heroes.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#38910: Jul 23rd 2015 at 4:16:09 PM

[up]I think one of the reasons we seem to be getting so many Shadow Archetypes is that, with each character only getting a few movies or so, there's not a lot of room to really flesh out their Rogues Gallery. Both Tony and Cap have plenty of enemies in the comics that aren't Shadow Archetypes, for example, but because each character only gets so many movies, the writers and producers feel like they need to add in the most essential villains first and foremost, and that includes Shadow Archetypes. Whereas in a TV show ala, say, Spectacular Spiderman, you've got a lot more time and space to really add more villains into the mix, which means a lot less time spent fighting Shadow Archetypes. But the movies just don't have that luxury.

edited 23rd Jul '15 4:17:32 PM by kkhohoho

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#38911: Jul 23rd 2015 at 4:38:35 PM

Variety is one of the main reasons I wanted to see someone like The Living Laser appear in the Iron Man film series - even if just as a minion or The Dragon. Not only are the Laser's powers different from Tony's, but they're out there and not at all conventional, making for a very interesting fight.

Or why I wish Hulk was getting more movies, because he has a lot of enemies with strange powers.

Anyway, we might not have that problem in sequels to Ant-Man ( unless Hank really does go bad). Yellowjacket is the only shrinking villain either Ant-Man has, even taking into account that the version we see in the movie is a Composite Character with someone completely unrelated.

edited 23rd Jul '15 4:42:37 PM by KnownUnknown

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38912: Jul 23rd 2015 at 4:42:11 PM

The Mandarin's powers would have been pretty different from Iron Man but he probably won't show up in anything.

edit: Ronan is also another character that doesn't mirror the powers of the protagonist.

edited 23rd Jul '15 4:43:13 PM by Kostya

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#38913: Jul 23rd 2015 at 4:52:07 PM

Considering the heroes have already been solidly established by the time of sequel films, you'd think that would've freed up room to flesh out their villains, Shadow Archetype or not. And indeed apparently they did, except it all went into the cutting floor for whatever reason (paranoia that Viewers Are Morons and can't comprehend non-Black-and-White Morality? I don't know).

The Dark World is especially bad in this because with all the scenes for the Dark Elves cut out for Loki, Thor probably gets the most screentime, and he's still dull as a doorknob. I seriously can't remember any new characterization being added to him. All the memorable moments of that film both good and bad went to the other characters.

edited 23rd Jul '15 4:53:44 PM by AlleyOop

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#38914: Jul 23rd 2015 at 5:19:16 PM

I want to see MODOK in all his narmy glory.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#38916: Jul 23rd 2015 at 6:28:04 PM

Personally I can see why having the villains have the same power the first time: as explained by the guys who worked on Antman, this allows for a less complicated story to have both the hero and villain get their powers from the same source. However, that only works for the first movie; past that, they have no excuse to give us some variant.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#38917: Jul 23rd 2015 at 6:36:47 PM

[up][up] I wouldn't think Marvel is so lacking in special effects prowess that they would mess up any of their characters at this point. Not after Guardians.

edited 23rd Jul '15 6:37:23 PM by KnownUnknown

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#38918: Jul 23rd 2015 at 6:52:14 PM

Tying current discussion back to Spider-man, maybe an altered origin for Scorpion will have him be the villain?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#38919: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:06:31 PM

No.

Scorpion's origin ties into Spidey.

He was created to be a better Spidey....and failed badly. I mean, he's supposed to be stronger, faster, etc, but he's not too good at that part. And he was created by JJJ. Wouldn't be right for him to be anything else to be honest.

One Strip! One Strip!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38920: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:12:49 PM

Scorpion is the kind of guy they should save for a sequel.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38921: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:12:54 PM

Also he is an arachnid too.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#38922: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:31:03 PM

Make Ben Reilly the villain (at first).

Seriously, somebody do the Clone Saga in the movies and do it right.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38923: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:31:52 PM

It's easy to tie Spider-Man's villains into Spider-Man's origin: Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive/genetically engineered spider from Oscorp. Norman Osborn runs Oscorp or Otto Octavius/Adrian Toomes works at Oscorp, etc, etc.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38924: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:40:04 PM

[up]It would get a bit old if every bad thing in Spider-Man's life came from Oscorp. The Amazing movies were starting to go that route.

[up][up]Why? The Clone Saga is one of those things that should be forgotten.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#38925: Jul 23rd 2015 at 7:42:07 PM

Spectacular Spider-Man! Just make the movie exactly like the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon! It's not that hard, Disney! *sulks off, muttering under breath about the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon*

edited 23rd Jul '15 7:42:32 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.

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