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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#38701: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:38:04 PM

[up]

It'd make him dangerous.....more dangerous that's for sure.

One Strip! One Strip!
Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38702: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:44:56 PM

I don't remember, is he in control of HYDRA now, or just in control of a group of criminals, some of whom happened to serve under HYDRA before it fell apart?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38704: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:48:29 PM

We don't know how large the group Ward controls is now.

As for Pym bombing the building, he did know that Cross was selling to bad people, including Martin Donovan, who was working with warlords, before he decided to destroy the building.

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38705: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:50:24 PM

I have no idea who Martin Donovan was, nor if I was supposed to know who he is.

But I think even if he did, there's a whole lot of other people in that building.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#38706: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:52:00 PM

He's the SHIELD guy Hank punched at the start who returned at the climax for the Yellowjacket sale.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38707: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:52:17 PM

Which is why they evacuated it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#38708: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:54:18 PM

So instead of being the guy who hit his wife, Hank Pym is now the jerkass who mistreats his daughter and blows up buildings.

Fuck. The guy can't win can he? I thought this movie would help Hank get away from that shit, but it seems to have given movie fans a reason something to latch onto now.sad

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38709: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:55:45 PM

What? No. That whole 10 page argument? Just 2 guys talking to each other. There's no need to assume everyone was sharing that opinion.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38710: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:56:35 PM

At least he didn't slap his building and implode his wife.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38711: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:57:43 PM

Cap also blew up a building and he didn't even have an evacuation plan.

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38712: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:59:02 PM

@Tucker: I knew that already. I meant out of the context of the movie, because it didn't give me any sign that he was evil before he revealed it.

@Handsome Rob: Well, there's no point in arguing he didn't mistreat his daughter, because the movie says that. Whether or not blowing up that building is bad or not is debatable. Personally, if they had explained it during the movie, instead of just expected us to accept it, perhaps some people would take it as badly.

EDIT: [up]I only watched Winter Soldier. I don't remember any buildings blowing up in it, but I could be wrong. Besides, was the evacuation his plan? I didn't get that from the movie. I thought the building alarm went off.

edited 22nd Jul '15 5:00:21 PM by Victin

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#38713: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:06:45 PM

[up]Triskelion blowing up as a result of the helicarriers going down, and probably taking out a lot of loyal SHIELD agents with it. Though it's possible they knew what could happen and chose to stay instead of flee.

edited 22nd Jul '15 5:07:25 PM by AlleyOop

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38714: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:14:01 PM

That? I don't think I remember enough to guess one way or another. I do remember two dudes were fighting when one of the helicarriers fell down, and they were coming from different floors of the building, and were from different sides.

edited 22nd Jul '15 5:14:11 PM by Victin

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38715: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:17:48 PM

Even if everyone somehow got out the building still blew up with little warning. He also killed everyone on the Helicarriers. While it's likely most of them were already affiliated with Hydra there could have been a few crewmembers that weren't.

edited 22nd Jul '15 5:18:12 PM by Kostya

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38716: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:21:36 PM

I don't think there was anyone on the Helicarriers. They seemed like glorified drones for me. They were remotely controlled, had already enough tech to automatically choose thousands of their own targets in the city/state/country, and no one was sent to the main core or whatever to fight Cap or anyone else, other than the Winter Soldier. How did he get there, again?

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#38717: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:23:10 PM

That's why Steve gave his speech at the beginning first, to alert everyone before stuff started falling. He wasn't under any impression that everyone aboard the Helicarriers was guilty; he ordered it shot down with himself and Bucky still aboard.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38718: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:26:26 PM

Actually Cap said "We have to assume anybody on board the Helicarriers are HYDRA".

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38719: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:26:44 PM

Even then, they were about to use the helicarriers to murder most of the planet.

They'd make damn sure everyone on them KNEW that going in.

Which brings up a minor point: They'd have to re-run the algorithm afterwards, which would have meant they killed more people, until they've murdered too much of the planet to maintain a stable breeding population and WHOOPS we just went extinct.

HYDRA, do you even evil dictatorship?

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38720: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:28:36 PM

I don't remember Winter Soldier very well, but warning everyone of his plans already counts a point in favor of Captain America. He could still be full of shit though, but it's already better than Pym.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#38721: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:29:15 PM

[up][up][up]Fury said that, but that doesn't mean they believed it. Merely that the situation was desperate enough that they didn't have time to pick and chose. But Cap gave that warning anyway, and if that wasn't enough, we also see a shot of HYDRA soldiers killing the SHIELD personnel aboard, so most likely everyone must have found out by then.

edited 22nd Jul '15 5:30:23 PM by Tuckerscreator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38722: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:31:47 PM

He warned them of his plans about ten minutes before shit started blowing up. Even then he didn't say the building would get destroyed too. While that part was probably unintentional he still decided blowing up the Helicarriers and dismantling Shield was the right course of action without going through the chain of command.

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#38724: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:35:08 PM

Cap decides Shield needs to go without talking to any kind of authority figures and asking if it's okay to blow up government property. Fury doesn't count since he's supposed to be dead. Even if Fury did count he only goes along with the plan when his other agents decide Cap is right.

Edit: Basically what Cap did is the equivalent of an FBI agent deciding to blow up the Pentagon without talking to the President or any kind of military leaders. Regardless of whether or not he has good reasons for doing this it's still a questionable decision.

edited 22nd Jul '15 5:36:45 PM by Kostya

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38725: Jul 22nd 2015 at 5:37:24 PM

At that point I'm fairly certain any attempted actions with regards to the chain of command would have gotten them all murdered by HYDRA.


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