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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#38676: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:11:39 PM

I think technological webshooters are more plausible if Peter is firing some kind of glue rather than a synthetic chemical as durable as spider silk.

Eh, don't think it'll catch on.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38677: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:14:40 PM

What is with Pete's jaw in that cover?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#38678: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:19:43 PM

Actually, I was thinking of Pete/The Trapster when writing that post. The Trapster did create something equivalent to Peter's webfluid, and the Trapster is all about glue.

The problem with the idea that Peter's webfluid is spider silk is because scientists have been trying to create than synthetically for a while and those attempts have been in well-funded laboratories. It does seem a bit implausible that either Peter would be able to do so.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#38679: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:20:26 PM

[up][up] He's secretly Wapol, I guess. tongue

[up] It's part of why I actually liked ASM's take on it: he didn't invent the webbing, but he invented a way to shoot it. And him not selling the stuff is justifiable: if Oscorp found out, they'd sue his ass to kingdom come.

edited 22nd Jul '15 1:23:27 PM by Watchtower

Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#38680: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:24:12 PM

So, just got back from the movie. Hank Pym: "Massive Ass". I totally believe his own daughter would vote him out of the company. Not to mention that it seems pretty likely that the whole plot happened at all because he kept everything about the pym particles, including their psychotropic effects, a secret. That shit is not how you do science!

Hmm... given how science works, it should really have been independently rediscovered about 72 times in the 40 years since he built the first suits. At least if he discovered it by anything like a normal scientific process.. Oh for fuck sake, it's alien tech, isn't it? Has to be.

Things that I liked about the movie. Hope.

That Lang's ex-wife clearly traded up, and how everyone in that family was very reasonable and sane about things.

Hope.

The way team ant-man just fail utterly at secrecy was just hilarious. Cross figures them out. Falcon tracks them down and rubs their faces in it.

Have I mentioned I really liked Hope? A lot? Well, I did. Seriously, tough, she's got every motivation in the world to get involved in this plot. Heck, it's her that instigates it. I really just doesn't make any sense that this movie isn't about her. because what's Lang's motivation here? "I got blackmailed"? "And selling micro-assassin tech to the highest bidder, not the best thing for world peace, so I.. as a convicted criminal, will step up and be a good citizen!"

Speaking of that. How, on earth did Lang end up doing time for his crime? Did he plead guilty? Public defender actually collapse in a drug overdose during closing arguments? Because finding a jury willing to send someone to prison for doing a Robin Hood on a crooked credit card company given even the bare minimum of competent defense... Difficult doesn't really cover it. I'd expect the prosecutor to be absurdly reluctant to even try the case, because jury annuls look bad on your record.

edited 22nd Jul '15 1:27:54 PM by Izeinsummer

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#38681: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:29:53 PM

[up]Everything points to the crimes being different in the original script. Having him go to jail for standing up to a big corporation makes him more "good" in the eyes of the viewers while if he went to jail for (for an example that probably wasn't in the original script)happening to kill someone during a crime makes him harder to root for.

edited 22nd Jul '15 1:35:56 PM by LordofLore

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38682: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:32:58 PM

Speaking of that. How, on earth did Lang end up doing time for his crime? Did he plead guilty?

Not spoilering because his crime was revealed pre-movie: Scott committed a crime. He hacked into a system and basically stole a bunch of money from Vistacorp. Even though he gave it to their customers, that's still theft. And it's still illegal. A jury might be sympathetic (which is why he got only five years), but they would still convict him if he tried to plead Not Guilty.

As for why Lang decided to become Ant-Man: Pym convinced him that he needed to be the hero that his daughter thought he was. He was basically doing it so Cassie would be proud.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#38683: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:35:12 PM

Plus, vistacorp might have used the media to turn the public opinion against him during the trial. That Scott doesn't exactly feel that he made a mistake and is very vocal about it might not have helped either.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38684: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:45:06 PM

Well, we did see those WHIH news footage that said that Vistacorp was never found to have any wrongdoing. (And the news was sponsored by Vistacorp.)

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#38685: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:45:24 PM

Just got back from the movie. This is easily my favorite MCU film second only to Iron Man. Honestly, it's kind of a huge relief to reaffirm that I still like the MCU as a whole after I hated Age of Ultron so much.

Heck, this movie was pretty much the polar opposite of Age of Ultron. It was simple and straightforward with a small, focused cast of characters. The perfect Breather Episode before diving into Civil War.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38686: Jul 22nd 2015 at 1:58:39 PM

I've heard it described as a "palette cleanser" for the MCU, actually. (And I enjoyed AOU, I just thought it was super complex, while Ant-Man was super simple.)

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#38687: Jul 22nd 2015 at 2:07:41 PM

I think movies like Ant-Man are more necessary than one would think. Like, if every MCU movie got as convoluted as Age of Ultron, we'd be in for a problem.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#38688: Jul 22nd 2015 at 2:22:32 PM

[up] I enjoyed Age of Ultron for the most part, and I'll agree with that.

Oh God! Natural light!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#38689: Jul 22nd 2015 at 2:28:02 PM

Yeah. I believe that after the crazy and higher stakes of AOU, we needed a sorta breather movie like Ant Man.

And it delivered.

One Strip! One Strip!
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#38690: Jul 22nd 2015 at 2:34:31 PM

Winter Soldier is still my favorite movie in the MCU, but Ant-Man's in...the top six? tongue

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38691: Jul 22nd 2015 at 3:18:54 PM

I just watched Ant-Man with friends. I think the comedy bits were fine, even if I didn't personally like some of the jokes. The serious stuff, on the other hand...

Hank Pym and Darren Cross? Two crazy assholes of the same kind, except the movie tried way, way too hard to make Darren evil, while trying moderately hard to make Hank sympathetic. Well, Hank does end the movie less crazy and assholish than Darren, given that he's presumably dead anyways, but still. I mean, "Oh no, he's using a sheep as a test subject instead of rats!" So what? Why should I care? Because sheeps are cute? I understand rats are used as test subjects for being biologically similar to humans, but it's not played like "Oh no, he's using a test subject that isn't similar to humans! This will clearly not end well!" Also killing a dude just because he thinks the weapon might be a little bit too dangerous? What is this, a saturday morning cartoon mad scientist? I thought this was Ant-Man, not Atomic Ant. ... Okay, maybe I'm a bit loaded on the snark, moving on...

What made Hank decide revealing the truth about his wife's death to his daughter in the middle of the movie? That came out of nowhere. And why/how is he crazy enough to know everything about Scott? That doesn't make him look any better. Besides, he was paying so much attention to Scott he forgot to pay attention to Darren. There's so much that happened he didn't expect: the fight with Falcon, the extra security measures, etc. Paying that much attention to Scott's life and not to anything else about his plan only makes him look crazier.

I think Scott was fine. Meanwhile, his friends and family weren't developed too much. I'm not going to complain about them because there's not much to complain about. I like it that, as a father, he was able to explain to Hope what her father's deal was. I don't like it they ended up as a couple. Where the hell did that come from? And how was Scott not arrested or anything of the like? I'd assumed after invading one of the Avengers' headquarters he'd be hunted after by SHIELD.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38692: Jul 22nd 2015 at 3:28:49 PM

I'd assumed after invading one of the Avengers' headquarters he'd be hunted after by SHIELD.

Um, SHIELD is still kind of rag-tag now (not sure if they are still considered a terrorist organization by the US or what). And the Avengers don't work for SHIELD in any case.

edited 22nd Jul '15 3:29:01 PM by alliterator

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#38693: Jul 22nd 2015 at 3:51:49 PM

I really don't get all these people who calls Pym an asshole. In my opinion he was at worse a Jerkass Woobie and definitely not as bad as Cross. At least Pym didn't murder people. Sure, the fact he spied on Scott before recruiting him and was very shadowy in his methods makes him morally ambiguous, but at the end of the day, he was just a scientist who didn't want his creation to be used by the wrong hands and made it his responsability to protect it. Well, whatever. To each his opinion.

Also, Pym decided to tell the truth to Hope after she basically got to the summum of her wrath, so yeah, that didn't came out of nowhere to me

edited 22nd Jul '15 4:13:14 PM by Theokal3

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#38694: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:08:27 PM

I think Ant-Man might have a few effects on Agents of SHIELD coming up. Even if they're not addressing HYDRA having their hands on Pym Particles until Civil War, Ant-Man is basically a walking security risk. Especially with Scott at the wheel, since he's overall painted less like a conventional superhero and more like a good-aligned merc.

In fact, HYDRA being back and having high-profile members at all is a given, since both AOS and Ultron sent the message that they were done.

edited 22nd Jul '15 4:10:22 PM by KnownUnknown

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38695: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:09:57 PM

[up][up][up]Okay, I'm not sure if the Avengers are still connected to SHIELD, I'd assume so connecting the series with Age of Ultron, but still... The Avengers should be connected to the government, or someone that can easily hunt the Ant-Man cast down.

[up][up]I didn't sympathize with Pym at all. Which is why he isn't a Woobie IMO. And I'm also not sure where the Pym Particle bombs came from. From destroying their servers and stealing their suit to bombing the shit down of the company headquarters there's a pretty big gap.

I'd have expected the reveal to come at the end. It came in the middle of the movie. You say he decided to reveal it for regreting the way he treated his daughter, but he has been doing that for many years now. Why only now? At least if it had happened closer to the end of the movie, it'd have made more sense. I think they only put it in the middle because they couldn't figure out how to clearly explain the dangers of getting lost in the Quantum World or whatever before it happened. And they could as well as done that afterwards.

edited 22nd Jul '15 4:10:16 PM by Victin

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#38696: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:17:37 PM

Yeah, you are right, how dare he destroy the company owned by a psychopath trying to copy his invention to sell it to terrorist? Granted, it was a drastic method, but I fail to see how that makes him unsympathetic. I didn't even perceived him as that much of a jerkass. Guess we just don't have the same vision of the character. I just don't understand why Hank gets called an asshole for blowing up an empty building in an attempt to ensure his formula won't kill millions when nearly nobody bat an eye about Kingsman: The Secret Service having the protagonists blowing up thousands of people to stop the bad guy's evil plan-which by the way still didn't prevent him from partially pulling said plan and killing a lot of people.

Oh, whatever. There already was a ridiculously long debate in this thread about Hank's morality and I have no desire to start a new similar one. Let's just move on to another topic.

edited 22nd Jul '15 4:29:37 PM by Theokal3

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#38697: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:28:34 PM

I wouldn't mind restarting the debate, because I wasn't here for it.

And, well, he only discovered Darren was selling weapons to terrorists while the bombing was undergoing. It's one thing trying to stop someone from legally inventing and selling the new most powerful weapon in the world, and another one trying to stop someone from legally inventing and illegally selling the new most powerful weapon in the world to terrorists.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#38698: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:31:03 PM

Funny, you use exactly the same argument than Tobias Drake last time. And I am just as unconvinced.

You might be willing to start the debate again but I am not. Frankly it was a pain the first time (took around three or four pages to finally end and nobody managed to convinced the other), and I am no desire to return to it. Can't we just move on to a less controversial thing to talk about?

edited 22nd Jul '15 4:35:04 PM by Theokal3

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38699: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:31:44 PM

I would be legit interested if Ward got his hands on some Pym Particles.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#38700: Jul 22nd 2015 at 4:34:21 PM

[up]Now that you mention, yeah, it would be interesting.


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