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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#38426: Jul 20th 2015 at 7:51:26 PM

I'm expecting Wasp to show up in either Captain Marvel (maybe taking Spider-Woman's place) or Black panther (I assume Wakanda will open up ever so slightly after Civil War). Unless she makes a secret cameo I don't think she'll be in Civil War proper, doubt she'll be in Doctor Strange, and she's not going to be in Thor Ragnarok or GOTG 2 for obvious reasons.

[up][up] It's probably too late to add any sequels into Phase 3 directly. Spider-Man is the one exception, but that's probably because they were already in talks with Sony before Phase 3 was officially announced, so they had that alternative slate (the one that we actually have now) ready beforehand. Also because it's such a ludicrous revenue generator that if they were going to go out of their way to squeeze in any one property, that would be it.

edited 20th Jul '15 8:04:08 PM by AlleyOop

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#38427: Jul 20th 2015 at 8:06:36 PM

[up] There's also possibilities for a cameo on Agents of SHIELD. Shrinking isn't a necessarily a particularly expensive VFX effect, so the cost shouldn't break the bank on that end.

Would be hilarious if, for the first half of the episode, the villains kept stumbling over themselves and experiencing improbable runs of bad luck for seemingly no reason whatsoever only for us and the protagonists to find out halfway through that The Wasp was responsible for everything. The villains never find out The Wasp was involved and instead begin to question their sanity.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#38428: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:00:14 PM

You know, I just realized that since HYDRA not only made off with a vial of the particles, but also bought the Yellowjacket suit (or at least its schematics), that means that they may ultimately mass produce it for their members. Talk about Fridge Horror.

Guess their mantra of "Cut off one head, two more shall take its place" holds true, especially since they are still active after the death of Von Strucker. It'll be interesting to see what they do in Phase 3.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38429: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:03:27 PM

wild mass guess They are setting HYDRA up to job to Thanos hilariously when he shows up to collect infinity gems.wild mass guess

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#38430: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:23:34 PM

That would be pretty interesting. Though Thanos being on the side of HYDRA is a bit scary to think about, even if he would just be using them for his own gains.

Also, found a critique of the film from an Edgar Wright fan. Rather weird to see how most of the ones who dislike the film think all its problems were due to no Wright.

Seriously, that guy is starting to become a bit overrated imo.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38431: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:26:18 PM

I'm also of the opinion that Edgar leaving was a good thing. I don't think I would have enjoyed his original vision as much as what we got if he had stayed.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38432: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:37:34 PM

Wasn't he the guy who wrote a script with functionally 0 female characters?

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#38433: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:37:43 PM

Yeah, as much as I love Hot Fuzz and Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, I feel that he was in the wrong with Ant-Man. Heck, all the additions to his script were fairly minor in the long run, so it really feels like less of him being frustrated by Executive Meddling and more like he was mad that he didn't get Protection from Editors like he usually receives.

On another note, while I am really excited for Captain America Civil War, I'm still iffy on Doctor Strange. Mainly due to the writers they choose for it, Thomas Dean Donnelly and Joshua Oppenheimer, who have written nothing but poorly received flops like Dylan Dog Dead Of Night, the Conan the Barbarian remake, and A Sound Of Thunder. All of which were panned and bombed commercially.

Why oh why would you choose these two to write your movie?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#38434: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:42:18 PM

[up]To be fair, Dr.Strange — in his solo comics anyway — has never really been about the writing. Rather, it's more about the trippy visuals and outlandish experiences that Strange goes through, especially in the 60's and 70's stuff. That doesn't mean a crappy script should be excused by any means, and there should at least be some decent character work, but I think this might be the sort of film where the script won't be quite as essential as in other movies.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#38435: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:53:33 PM

Writers aren't the only thing that makes a film good—or bad. A good director could help them make Strange good, and bad ones could have made all those other ones horrible. Not to mention good actors help a lot, and the racial controversy aside, you have to admit that Benedict Cumberbatch and Tilda Swinton are excellent actors.

Though mind, I haven't seen the movies you're complaining about, so I have no idea what exactly went wrong with them.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#38436: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:55:32 PM

What Wright likes to do: Not have women.

And while I never really took note of that in his other movies...

Wait a minute: Shaun in Shaun Of The Dead has a girlfriend. Hot Fuzz has no plot important females (though the one female cop kicks ass with all the rest of them at the end)....no wait, while I still haven't seen all of it, The Worlds End has only one female, and she disappears for quite a bit too.

Ok, back to my original point, why does not really have any women in his films? I mean, I can understand not forcing them in or something, but what's the deal?

edited 20th Jul '15 9:56:12 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#38437: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:59:49 PM

Dropped this thread for a while because I didn't want to encounter spoilers, I couldn't keep up, and because Age of Ultron was honestly kinda shit, in my opinion.

But Ant-Man. Holy shit Ant-Man.

The second most entertaining MCU film for me after Winter Soldier, and one of the top five films of the series alongside Winter Soldier, Avengers 1, GOTG and Iron Man 1.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#38438: Jul 20th 2015 at 10:23:29 PM

i have to confess i wasn't really familiar with wright's name until i became aware of the controversy regarding him as director.

[up][up]idk, it happens sometimes. Write What You Know and Most Writers Are Male have a few extremes where there just aren't that many female characters in the story that matter much.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#38439: Jul 20th 2015 at 10:23:31 PM

I mean, Wright had some great female characters in Spaced. It's just that, you know, every episode was co-written by Simon Pegg and Jessica Stevenson, who were also the main actors.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#38440: Jul 20th 2015 at 11:03:42 PM

Re: Dr. Strange writers:

The neat thing about screenwriters is that, unlike directors, you don't have to wait until the movie's in production before you can evaluate how well they're doing with it. Even if some screenwriters have a poor track record, as long as you read the finished script before agreeing to anything, you know in advance whether they did a good job or a bad job with this project.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#38441: Jul 20th 2015 at 11:47:36 PM

All of a sudden, that makes me extremely thankful for Marvel Studios's rather heavy hand in their films. Heck, one of the executives even said that Batman And Robin was influential when it came to their movies, since it showed to everyone that you can't just make crap superhero films and expect people to like it.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#38442: Jul 20th 2015 at 11:56:51 PM

Oh, and how did you guys like the way Ant-Man connected to the bigger MCU? Some felt that it kind of dragged the film to a halt.

For that matter, do you think that the films are becoming to formulaic? I don't think so since they all have a different genre flavor to them, but that is a problem many critics have with it.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#38443: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:06:10 AM

formulaic is a strong word but part of the reason i didn't care too much for a lot of the phase 1 movies was that a lot of them seemed to hit similar beats despite the differing genres.

i don't feel it's as much of a problem anymore considering Got G and Winter Soldier were both kinda different, meaning marvel can make movies that don't fit so squarely into superhero movie expectations.

edited 21st Jul '15 12:08:04 AM by wehrmacht

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#38444: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:15:02 AM

Heh, on another note, considering that Wright's draft contained a smaller role for Hope, it's a bit weird seeing articles that criticize how the film portrayed her.

cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#38445: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:22:37 AM

even though the MCU is heading in the right direction, i wasn't as big a fan of Winter Soldier as everyone else seems to be, and though guardians of the galaxy is great, i think it still had a lot of flaws, and the sequel can be a hell of a lot better (and should).

(however, Daredevil at least blew me away, so that's sort of reinvigorated me and made me excited for at least the television side of the MCU).

i also want less of the formulaic aspect of the MCU, not only in setting and character, but different styles of cinematography, which is why i was excited for Ant Man, because (in my opinion) Edgar Wright has a hell of a distinct style, and the MCU needs directors like him. (or at least, they may not need distinct directing, but at some point the MCU is going to blend all together, like what is already sort of happening).

even though Wright isn't on the project anymore, i'm still interested in seeing Ant Man soon, just to see how much of him remains in the final cut.

cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#38446: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:25:14 AM

eh, on second thought, never mind. representation matters.

edited 21st Jul '15 12:28:13 AM by cutewithoutthe

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#38447: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:39:58 AM

So...having seen the movie I first want to say this: I told you so! I predicted months ago that a Superhero Heist movie would be awesome and that the movie might end up being better than Age of Ultron. And I was right.

I also said that we should trust Marvel when it comes to The Wasp. And I was right I mean How awesome is this set-up? They managed to shuffle Hank Pym in the background while still keeping the possibility of Janet open without tweaking the mythology too much. Hopefully we will see in phase four a Wasp movie which shows Hope going to rescue her mother...and I hope when we get a second Wasp, she'll be more like the "Mightiest Heroes" one, a little bit quirky to contrast with Hope more serious personality. Honestly, the story-telling potential in this set-up makes me salivating. How old was Janet when she vanished? She could come back and be younger than her own daughter.

About the movie in general: I immediately wanted to watch it a second time. My favourite character is Cassie. She reminds me so much of Lilo. I also think that it was very smart for Marvel to scale it down a little bit - pun not intended. It was a smaller story, but it had a lot of heart.

It's not Got G or The Winter Soldier, but Ant-man deserves a spot in the top five of the best marvel movies.

cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#38448: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:51:57 AM

[up]Don't wanna become the Edgar Wright dude, but I think the scale of the movie has more to do with his draft than Marvel's revisions, at least of most of the stuff I've seen online. Especially the aspect of it focusing itself upon being a heist movie, first and foremost.

source: http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/ant-man/247822/how-would-edgar-wrights-ant-man-have-been-different

edited 21st Jul '15 12:52:05 AM by cutewithoutthe

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#38449: Jul 21st 2015 at 12:54:54 AM

[up]I think at has something to do with money. Ant-man was a risky project, so they had to keep down the budget, knowing that it most likely wouldn't be a big-hitter. Keeping it smaller also kept down the risk.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#38450: Jul 21st 2015 at 1:02:15 AM

Looking at the article...mmm...Yeah, the heist movie came from Wright, but the mentor/pupil relationship is mostly downplayed and instead we got a bigger focus on father/daughter relationships. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cassie's role was also much smaller in the original draft. Also, there was even less about the villain originally? How is that possible? The guy works, but I can't see him working with any less screentime. Then The Quantum Realm...that was maybe the best aspect of the movie for the reasons I mentioned before. Honestly, reading that I am glad that Wright provided the concept, but I am equally glad that he didn't finish it.


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