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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Shut up and take my money.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Speaking entirely for myself, I was disillusioned from the Marvel Movieverse for a while. I felt that almost every single movie after Iron Man 1 was ok at best, but not very memorable or interesting. This led to Avengers being a very boring movie for me because I felt no excitement at seeing all these characters together,it felt like a dull comic book plot being played out on the screen (on top of miscellaneous flaws like Hawkeye being a complete throwaway character). after how disappointing iron man 3 was i just lost interest.
i decided to give winter soldier a chance on the benefit of its reputation and was pleasantly surprised. The twist itself was alright, but I think it was moreso the fact that it was a surprisingly effective political thriller. there was a real feeling of tension and paranoia in the beginning of the movie, when the initial conspiracy becomes apparent. you don't know who can be trusted or what's going to happen. this is a completely alien feeling that is not present in any other marvel movie. of course it gradually fades once you understand what the conspiracy IS, but fortunately the film has plenty of other things to offer that it doesn't become a problem.
in terms of characters it was also good. i don't have anything against chris evans but i was never really able to accept him as captain america. i felt that he was more of a confident, experienced badass in this movie, like comic book cap, which i liked. pretty much all of the other characters are well-used and have a good place in the narrative, with falcon being a standout as a new character who's sympathetic, likable and competent.
the winter soldier himself was handled in the best possible way. if you already know who he is from the comics the "twist" works because it focuses on the anticipation of steve finding out who he is. the relationship between the two is portrayed in a very genuine way (the scene between them after steve's mom's funeral is one of the best storytelling moments in the entire MCU imo) and forms a solid emotional hook for the movie. if you don't follow the comics the above still applies, you'd most likely just be surprised by the twist.
But I think what I liked about it the most was that it didn't really feel like a "superhero" movie. I felt that it was a political thriller that just happened to take place in the MCU. It was trying to be decent movie first, and a superhero movie second. not that i think the other marvel movies were trying to be bad or anything, but they just weren't built the same way winter soldier was. i hope ant-man and future mcu movies are more like winter soldier in that sense.
edited 9th Jul '15 6:44:49 PM by wehrmacht
Yeah, it's my personal fave too.
Ant Man is up to 71% on RT, if you're concerned about that.
Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau ProjectI agree that a large part of Winter Soldier's strength as a movie came from the plot's relative complexity and the fact that I didn't know what was going to happen next. This is in sharp contrast with the rest of the MCU - and most other superhero movies - where you know the broad strokes of everything that will happen and there's little in the way of surprises.
The action scenes were also effectively choreographed and had a lot of variety, with the result that I found them far more engaging than all the other recent superhero films.
Crucially, the film had a lot of emotional strength, partly from the relationship between Cap and Bucky, but also from all of the characters' moral struggles. It wasn't just Cap who had moral struggles and perspectives, it was secondary characters like Widow and Fury, which did a lot to make them feel like real participants in the film rather than just sidekicks.
And even into the finale, the big moments weren't just characters fighting each other, but characters making moral decisions. Widow choosing to release all Shield/Hydra's information, including a lot of unpleasant information about herself. Fury choosing to accept the destruction of the organization to which he'd dedicated his life. Cap accepting the need to have an absolutely brutal, no-hold-barred fight with his friend in order to save millions of people, but also choosing to stop fighting as soon as that was accomplished, even if it cost his life.
This sets it apart from the rest of the MCU, where the climactic moments generally centre around defeating the villain through physical force and/or misdirection.
The fact that, after months of fans claiming that the movie was going to be about Cap learning to "get with the times" and accept pre-emptive war and mass surveillance and whatnot (seriously! I read the film's TV tropes page before it screened!), the film instead turned him and Widow into the MCU's Edward Snowden just made me love it more. I loved the deconstruction of the security state. I loved the implicit deconstruction of Nick Fury's speech in the elevator about needing Project Insight because he didn't trust people - because if you supposedly don't trust people, you shouldn't give them something like Project Insight, because it's the untrammelled power to kill anyone you want, power that no one should be trusted with and that can only make people more unsafe. It's inherently contradictory to say that you should give the government (or corporations, or any other large institution) vast amounts of unrestricted, unmonitored power on the basis that you don't trust people.
edited 9th Jul '15 7:18:33 PM by Galadriel
I concede that it had stronger characterization than Iron Man 2, 3, First Avenger, and Thor 2. And fine, "moral decisions > punching".
But clearly we have different tastes. Then again, I asked what was so great about it in the first place.
I have to contest that TWS isn't the first Marvel film to have "weight" and "consequence" in its fight scenes. That's been there since Blade, Blade 2, Thor, Iron Man 1, and even Iron Man 3 somewhat.
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!I have to disagree about one point: The Winter Soldier does feel like a Comic book movie. It certainly embraces what it is. But it also feels like more than what we perceive as a typical comic book movie. It is not just a political thriller, it picks up a theme from The Avengers and contrasts modern America with the ideals on which America was built once...and naturally modern America falls short. I really appreciate how it cuts through the usual arguments why spying and collecting data is necessary and reminds the audience that the question is always who holds the trigger in the end.
Other strength are: 1. The characters...I especially love that Black Widow ends up with the role of the "buddy" which Falcon takes the role which is usually reserved for the love interest, giving emotional support. 2. The action scenes...the movie has two of my favourite action scenes in the entire franchise with the fight in the elevator and the battle on the bridge. 3. The writing...let's face it, it is a hard sell that Steve would meet some guy jogging and one day later said guy is ready to fight with him. But the writing is so strong that you totally buy it. The dialogues are natural and the story itself is so well put together that even Honest Trailer could only nitpick at it (they should always try to make their movies Honest Trailer proof).
You know, the reason I am really looking forward to Civil War and Infinity was is only partly the director, the reason is the writers. Christopher Markus and Stephen Mc Feely have come a long way since the Chronicles of Narnia, and it seems like they have a feeling for Comic book properties. Captain America was so well written that after watching the movie I liked a Superhero I despised beforehand, because they did such a good job to explain his motivations. The Winter Soldier was nearly perfect. Agent Carter was great. Marvel really struck gold when they hired those two, and I have no doubt that they will keep delivering quality for the upcoming movies, too. (Never mind that putting the story of a character into the hands of one pair of good writers is a really smart idea...that is one of the reasons why Cap is the most consistent of the Avengers).
They unzipped her suit but I appreciate that they gave her a shirt under it.
edited 10th Jul '15 10:39:29 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Joe Quesada has seen the MCU!Spider-Man Suit.
And he liked what he saw!
Geez, why must Marvel Studios torment us by not showing up at SDCC? The suspense of not knowing when we'll see the Spidey suit is (metaphorically) killing me. >_<
(Half-joking aside, exactly why did Marvel Studios not show up at SDCC this year?)
I honestly don't expect it to look radically different than what we've seen before. As shitty as the movie itself was, the costume in Amazing Spider-Man 2 was pretty much straight off the page. There's not really many ways you can go to change it up heavily.
edited 10th Jul '15 11:44:44 AM by comicwriter
Well Ben Reilly had a hoodie too...
Right. Civil War is still shooting so they likely don't have much CGI or post-production stuff to show since it's gonna require so many special effect shots.
The Comic Con trailer of Days of Future Past ran into this problem since it was a bunch of people standing around dramatically or running from explosions since there was no CGI finished yet.
edited 10th Jul '15 12:00:19 PM by comicwriter
I have stopped giving a shit what Quesada has to say about Spider-Man for some reason.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

edited 9th Jul '15 3:39:46 PM by kkhohoho