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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#37476: Jul 9th 2015 at 7:14:50 AM

@Swan: In Ant Man's case the word of mouth seems to be better than the reviews, but we don't really have a lot of reviews to go on.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#37477: Jul 9th 2015 at 8:27:14 AM

How is Peggy in Civil War? Are we getting another Peggy flashback, or... I guess Sharon visits her in the hospital?

It was a joke about her tweets with Emily VanCamp. We don't know yet if she'll appear or not. She should, though. A flashback with her and Sharon would be fantastic.

So, if the plot twist was why everyone else loved it

It was also because 1. it balanced a large cast of primary characters (Steve, Natasha, Nick Fury, the Falcon, SHIELD's agents, etc.) and gave them all an arc without feeling imbalanced or disconnected. 2. It follows together tighter than The First Avenger which is awesome but has pacing problems in the third act. 3. As for the twist, it matters because the rest of the MCU is changed for it. Yes, Hydra is dealt with quickly in Age of Ultron, but SHIELD's absence is felt and makes the climax more triumphant on return. Agents of SHIELD had its premise completely flipped. And other Marvel films are following in TWS's footsteps; Thor Ragnarok is being called "The Winter Soldier of Phase 3".

It's also the first Marvel film to really focus on a political issue of our time. Previous films like the Iron Man films and The Avengers had bits of political relevance, but The Winter Soldier made it the primary issue, much like The Dark Knight. One could even argue it's an antithesis to The Dark Knight; TDK says "sometimes you have to make a morally gray decision like mass surveillance if it will put down the bad guys quickly", TWS says "No, we can't trust ourselves with even one use of it, because even just one time can lead to tons of innocent deaths."

edited 9th Jul '15 8:28:03 AM by Tuckerscreator

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37478: Jul 9th 2015 at 9:21:12 AM

I guess that adds up.

I don't know how much I'd really want to defend a film with the notion of being 'politically relevant' when said film resolves the issue by sending billions of dollars in surveillance equipment to the bottom of the ocean harbor.

edited 9th Jul '15 9:43:51 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#37479: Jul 9th 2015 at 9:31:48 AM

Fishes deserve to violate privacy too

Ever think about that?

(in before Namor)

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37480: Jul 9th 2015 at 9:34:28 AM

And yes, I'm ignoring context, because that equipment was being used by a Neo-Nazi Fascist organization for global domination, but still. I feel like the relevancy is lost when the plot goes to such extremes.

I wouldn't hold up Dark Knight or Rises as politically or culturally relevant either because it's about a rich guy who dresses up as a bat, steals military-grade hardware from his own company, and uses it to take out his rage on street criminals instead of, I don't know, attacking terrorist organizations, seeking professional counseling, or fighting poverty, like a normal person concerned with national or personal security would do.

That just wouldn't fly outside of a comic book.

[down] Fair enough.

edited 9th Jul '15 9:43:09 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#37481: Jul 9th 2015 at 9:36:50 AM

Neo-Fascist.

For that matter, I disagree with the argument that making them Neo-Fascists reduces the validity of the argument, because A) Neo-Fascists are rather commonplace B) You could take it as a "HYDRA is what we could become if we keep going down this road".

edited 9th Jul '15 9:37:09 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#37482: Jul 9th 2015 at 9:40:14 AM

So far I have only see positive reviews for ant-man. Granted, I stick to the spoiler-free ones, but the worst I have read so far is "it is a little slow at the beginning".

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#37483: Jul 9th 2015 at 9:47:05 AM

Granted, I stick to the spoiler-free ones, but the worst I have read so far is "it is a little slow at the beginning".

Honestly, after the extremely fast-paced Age of Ultron, I could use a little slowness. That, to me, is a good thing.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#37484: Jul 9th 2015 at 10:28:16 AM

Iron Man 3 was all about how we spend so much money and attention on foreign threats because foreigners are scary and weird and refuse to pay attention to the fact that most foreign threats arise because we as a country supplied them with weapons and crap for stupid, petty reasons.

(For all the folks who complain that Killian is undermined by his motivation being "Tony Stark spurned me at a party"—is that really much worse than "we wanted to dick with a country that was already collapsing under its own weight by paranoidly working to snuff out its economic system and undermine its even smaller, less economically stable allies"?)

I'd hardly call Winter Soldier the first politically-relevant Marvel movie.

Also, it's probably worth pointing out that Whedon was actually pushing for Age of Ultron to be shorter than Avengers, and got his wish by a second.

edited 9th Jul '15 10:31:27 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37485: Jul 9th 2015 at 10:29:28 AM

We do have a bit of a history when it comes to combatting today's threat by manufacturing tomorrow's.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#37486: Jul 9th 2015 at 10:30:49 AM

with a side plot of 'hey we should treat veterans better maybe?'

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#37487: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:45:58 AM

Yeah, this is probably old news by now, but Marisa Tomei will be the MCU!Aunt May.

Welcome to the MCU, Ms. Tomei! Hope you survive the experience! evil grin

wild mass guessgrinNow how about Elle Fanning or Abigail Breslin as Gwen Stacy? grinwild mass guess

(Hears people groaning "Ugh, really? He's gonna go there?", "Is he serious?", and "Give it a rest, dude. -_-")

...

...I'll be quiet now. sad

edited 9th Jul '15 11:47:54 AM by TargetmasterJoe

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#37488: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:49:41 AM

[up]Or, at the very least, hope you don't survive because your nephew makes a deal with the devil.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#37489: Jul 9th 2015 at 11:50:20 AM

Elle Fanning is a little young, isn't she? She's *checks wiki*....17.

Ah.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37491: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:46:22 PM

Provided it's not like Blade Trinity. 1 and 2 had better choreography and tone.

Blade can't really wade into the MCU, but still, grisly vampires, what's not to love?

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#37492: Jul 9th 2015 at 12:53:02 PM

Blade also proved that Marvel characters could thrive on the big screen, even before X-Men, so Wesley Snipes should definitely get a chance to revisit the character.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#37493: Jul 9th 2015 at 1:10:30 PM

I just hope that he's British, like he is in the comics.

Hey! Idris Elba for Blade! I mean, I know he already plays Heimdall, but he can totally play two characters.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#37494: Jul 9th 2015 at 1:16:17 PM

I didn't notice but the last WHIH video ends with a reference about representatives from Sokovia meeting with the U.N. to discuss more oversight and accountability for superhumans.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#37495: Jul 9th 2015 at 1:36:14 PM

Snipes is def too old IMO, but he could be worked into a cameo or something. I think Blade makes more sense in its own corner, similar to how the DC Vertigo adaptations are kept separate from the other stuff.

At the least, even if Blade is considered part of the MCU the crossover should be kept to mostly Shout Outs.

Bloodsquirrel Since: May, 2011
#37496: Jul 9th 2015 at 1:53:29 PM

I wouldn't hold up Dark Knight or Rises as politically or culturally relevant either because it's about a rich guy who dresses up as a bat, steals military-grade hardware from his own company, and uses it to take out his rage on street criminals instead of, I don't know, attacking terrorist organizations, seeking professional counseling, or fighting poverty, like a normal person concerned with national or personal security would do.

Applicability is usually better than didactic preaching.

A work of fiction can never prove a point about a real-world issue. It's all made up anyway, so being 100% accurate to a real issue isn't necessary. The point should never be to pretend that you're advancing a logical argument, but to present something that makes the audience think. No, you can't point to Winter Soldier and say "That's why we can't have surveillance! This movie proves that a sleeper agency in the government will build giant flying aircraft carriers and use them to kill millions of people!", but you can't do that with any movie, no matter how grounded it is. You can't present fiction as evidence in a debate about the real world.

Movies are still a entertainment products. Using real-world issues is more about making the movie emotionally resonant than it is about serving a cause. That's why Winter Soldier and the Dark Knight movies work. They're using a real issue to make their conflicts more engaging, and in the process maybe providing a novel viewpoint on them.

EDIT: Also, Winter Soldier was a well-made movie in general. Compare how tightly it was scripted to the disheveled mess that was Age of Ultron, how the action scenes had weight and consequence instead of Looney Toon physics, etc. Winter Solider being "relevant" is a bonus on top of it already being a very solid action movie. Even if Age of Ultron had a real message buried somewhere in it, it would still be mediocre movie.

edited 9th Jul '15 1:58:40 PM by Bloodsquirrel

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#37497: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:43:25 PM

I think they should give Blade his own Netflix show. I know he had a tv show before and it was awful, but after how gritty and grisly Daredevil and how goddamn amazing at it it turned out to be, I think Blade would fit just fine in the small screen.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#37498: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:52:41 PM

Vampires have become a bit passe (especially the Vampire Detective idea), but I can see it having some potential. I like characters who are much older than they look and have lived through different eras, and often in different countries.

And there aren't really a lot of long-lived characters of color that I can recall. It's kind of a corollary of No Equal-Opportunity Time Travel. So, Blade is unique in this respect. Not many vampires of color either come to think of it.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#37499: Jul 9th 2015 at 2:54:51 PM

Just have Blade be in Spider-Man, where the two team up to fight Morbius. Black Cat can be the love interest.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#37500: Jul 9th 2015 at 3:06:03 PM

Or make a Captain Britain and MI-13 Netflix show with Captain Britain, Pete Wisdom (if they can get him), the Black Knight, Spitfire, Blade, and Faiza Hussein. Fighting against Dracula and his army of vampires.

Do it, Marvel. Dooooo it.


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