Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
From the Avengers film onward, the writers have had trouble with getting the film characters mixed up with their comic counterparts. In short, they jumped the gun on establishing the characters and forgot that they haven't laid the proper framework for things like Thor being "Guardian of Midgard."
It's a similar problem to what the comics themselves are undergoing: nobody fights crime anymore because every story has to be a major epic, and so the general status of the superheroes as stopping bank robberies and foiling minor acts of terrorism and the like is assumed rather than depicted. Entire teams form, fight ONE villain, and then disband.
The send Avengers film has that problem of Inferred Offscreen Acts of Heroism too. We're meant to assume that the Avengers got back together and fought Hydra for months prior to the film, but we never actually see so much as Thor swinging by the tower to go, "Hey guys, I'm back on Midgard, what's new?"
edited 1st Jul '15 1:29:13 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.We get to see the All-New All-Different Avengers trying to stop a bank robbery.
So there's that at least
Forever liveblogging the AvengersWe miss out on fascinating stories because we only get to see big events.
- PEPPER: *answering the phone* Is this important? I've got a meeting in five minutes.
- RECEPTIONIST: Ms. Potts, there is a very large man standing in the lobby raving about wanting to see Mr. Stark. I've informed him that Mr. Stark is no longer in charge of the company, but he's very insistent.
- THOR: *in the background* The man's name is engraved on the stone in front of your building! He must be somewhere!
- RECEPTIONIST: Oh, dear, now he's gone into Engineering.
- PEPPER: *sigh* I'll handle it.
edited 1st Jul '15 1:33:24 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
![]()
![]()
Another problem is the kind of character he is used as thematically. Thor is supposed to be guardian of Midgard, but they're focusing on him as their cosmic/fantasy counterpart character - his threats powerful alien-fantasy mashup threats that threaten all the Nine Realms, not Earthborne villains (hell, two of his Earth villains have been given to the Agents of SHIELD instead). Likewise, he's Earth's only actual contact with the galaxy as a whole and is treated as such by the writers (since the Guardians have no interest in going to Earth), and until Guardians he was their main character to explore the galaxy.
That doesn't mesh well with being on Earth, and Marvel Studios haven't really put much effort into giving it a shot anyway, so he's always having adventures elsewhere instead. Loki lampshades it as early as Avengers, and it's probably going to come up again in Thor 3.
His comics, even when at their most cosmic, didn't tend to have this problems because - having the benefit of a lot of issues, multiple plotlines and a wide array of enemies - they could show him in many differences places and still give the impression that he has business on Earth. Films have the issue of dealing with the feeling of being in a vacuum, which makes it worse.
They could probably fuse the two by introducing a villain like Jormungandr in a future film, but as it is probably Thor's last movie coming up they're probably going to save that for Surtur.
edited 1st Jul '15 1:37:04 PM by KnownUnknown
No, I think I know what I'm talking about.
Ah, you were responding to a post about comics, not the movie-version.
In which, the post you responded to is doubly wrong because the book Mighty Avengers whole schtick was that they were the "people's Avengers" and could be contacted by anyone. Also, the new Thor stopped the Absorbing Man and Titania from robbing a bank.
Actually, even going back to the 2012 run on Captain Marvel, that begins with Carol and Steve Rogers stopping a bank robbery.
The thing is, bank robberies are kind of boring. Unless there is a twist or something, it's just "bad guy leaves bank with bags of cash, is defeated by superhero." So it's pretty much used as a one to two page intro or as a background as the superheroes go do something else.
edited 1st Jul '15 2:08:24 PM by alliterator
Who the fuck even robs banks anymore? I mean, with the ridiculous amounts of security and that weird ink trick and so on—like, why bother? Why not hit a convenience store or something? Or, like, if it's got to be a bank, maybe do it after hours? Not in broad daylight?
Seriously, do criminals in the superhero world just have some sort of bank fetish?
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.Someone did a really interesting piece about how bank robberies are a dated superhero cliche, because at this point with all the rights corporations have as well as the insane amount of insurance they hold, robbing a bank is essentially a victimless crime (barring of course any hostages hurt or killed).
The point is, the age of small-scale stories is more or less behind us. General acts of superheroism happen offscreen, for the most part, and are just assumed to be things the heroes are doing when we're not watching.
Somewhere between Iron Man 1 and Iron Man 2, Iron Man fought enough international terrorism to be able to justify a statement like, "I'm your deterrent; It's WORKING," or "I have successfully privatized world peace," whereas the only thing we'd seen him do onscreen was fight one group of terrorists that one time and get in a punch-up with Stane on a busy highway.
Somewhere between Thor and Avengers, Thor built a reputation for being Earth's defender and guardian despite never going to Earth again between the films and having only spent a handful of days there in the first film.
Somewhere between Avengers and Winter Soldier, Captain America did several missions with S.H.I.E.L.D., becoming increasingly frustrated with their behavior until the relationship was strained nearly to its breaking point.
Somewhere between the other movies and Avengers 2, the Avengers reunited and had numerous battles against various Hydra installations until finally they had Hydra on the verge of collapse.
We see none of this because it's hard to justify a $170 million budget for a one-sided curbstomp in which Iron Man spends two hours effortlessly tearing down terrorist groups and sipping martinis. We're just meant to infer that it's happening, because there's no room in superhero stories for traditional superheroics anymore.
Unless Doc Ock has abducted all of the Avengers, imprisoned the Fantastic Four in space, and is about to nuke the entire planet, and only Spider-Man could possibly stop him...it's just not newsworthy. Certainly not worth spending an entire issue on, let alone a film. At best, you might get a page or two of it while more important stuff is happening.
edited 1st Jul '15 3:13:50 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The point is, the age of small-scale stories is more or less behind us. General acts of superheroism happen offscreen, for the most part, and are just assumed to be things the heroes are doing when we're not watching.
Um, we just cited a bunch of stories were they happened on-screen.
I mean, the bank robbery isn't going to be the main story, because it's become dull and cliched over the years, but they still happen with regularity in the Marvel universe and superheroes still stop them.
In the MCU, on the other hand, most of the superheroes aren't street level heroes - we've never seen any of them, aside from Daredevil, actually fight street crime.
Small time crimes like bank robberies and such are below the paygrade of the Avengers. They're a special ops team that deals with worldwide threats. If they're taking time to stop a bank robbery then it's probably an incredibly boring day for them.
Insurance companies are heartless anyway.
edited 1st Jul '15 4:04:36 PM by Kostya

Speaking of which, for a guy who claims to be Guardian of Midgard, Thor certainly doesn't seem to spend a lot of time there.