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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36926: Jun 24th 2015 at 8:19:54 PM

That happens a lot with action movies ("female character who is badass enough to teach and/or show up the protagonist in a scene or two, but not badass enough to accomplish anything" that is - essentially, the female badass who is there to be the object who helps the male character become badass), and the ubiquity is starting to get annoying - mostly because it's one of those things Hollywood just will not let go of, even though people are starting to mock it these days.

Marvel has averted it before with Guardians, though.

edited 24th Jun '15 8:22:53 PM by KnownUnknown

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#36927: Jun 24th 2015 at 8:32:32 PM

Gamora was never set up as a mentor to Quill, though. I'm not sure "they just didn't use this trope at all" counts as an aversion.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#36928: Jun 24th 2015 at 8:38:06 PM

29 things about Ant Man.

Between having created Ultron, physically assaulted his wife, and suffered from mental illness, Hank Pym is one of the most controversial characters in the comics. Don’t expect all of his checkered past to seep into the Marvel Cinematic Universe though. Much like Iron Man’s alcoholism was only hinted at in Iron Man 2, Pym’s problems won’t be explicitly explored. “You’ll see a really conflicted character in this movie,” said Reed. “There’s a lot of stuff that he really needs to make right in his life and I think there’s a certain amount of guilt that motivates him.” Kevin Feige clarified the matter further: “He is not a wife-beater in this movie, and I doubt he will ever be [in the MCU].”

Another set report.

edited 24th Jun '15 8:47:27 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#36929: Jun 24th 2015 at 8:47:32 PM

[up] Feige, you fool! Where are we going to get our cheap shock value jokes from now?

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#36930: Jun 24th 2015 at 8:50:51 PM

How's this:

"Well, he's not gonna be a wife beater because there ain't gonna be no wife to beat."

Zing!tongue

But really, I'm sure they want to get past that.

edited 24th Jun '15 8:51:32 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36932: Jun 24th 2015 at 8:58:29 PM

I'm slightly less peeved by the use of that trope in this context since while it generally annoys me, they have made it clear she will at least become a proper superhero in her own right in a later film.

I wish it were now in this film but I suppose it's better than simply playing the "The guy gets to be the hero while the girl complains about not being a hero" trope 100 percent straight.

edited 24th Jun '15 8:59:12 PM by comicwriter

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#36933: Jun 24th 2015 at 9:07:44 PM

I'm interested in one particular secret moment from these reports that's apparently pretty exciting for comic fans. I wonder.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36934: Jun 24th 2015 at 9:43:46 PM

Gamora was never set up as a mentor to Quill, though. I'm not sure "they just didn't use this trope at all" counts as an aversion.

She's in the "show up" (IE humiliate) camp, not the "teach to be badass" camp.

Them encouraging each other to be better without it falling into that trope is arguably part of the aversion, though.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#36935: Jun 24th 2015 at 10:33:55 PM

Is Iredeemable Ant-Man really that bad?

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#36937: Jun 25th 2015 at 12:23:52 AM

You know, once Marvel's done with Phase 3, most of the 'Classic' Avengers will have showed up in some film or another. Let's see here...

Captain America Iron Man Thor Hulk Hank Pym/Ant Man Wasp Hawkeye Black Widow Scarlet Witch Vision Quicksilver Captain Marvel (Carol) Black Panther

By my count, that'll just leave Hercules and Wonder Man

No She-Hulk, though... :( I can understand why they wouldn't want to introduce her, they probably feel spinoff heroes are too complicated for the movie audience, but She-Hulk's quite dinstinct from Hulk (she's boisterous and good-natured, and views the transformation to Hulk as a blessing and not a curse, being more comfortable in the green form than as a human), and she's pretty much my favourite Avenger.

I'd also count Beast among "classic" Avengers, especially if Wonder Man's counted too, because of their duo act. But obviously he can't be used in the MCU movies.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#36939: Jun 25th 2015 at 12:32:21 AM

I remember that. Don't know why they'd give her that one to read.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#36940: Jun 25th 2015 at 12:41:09 AM

Do we actually know what other actors and actresses have read comics for fun before or to prepare for the roles? I know Hiddleston really liked Journey Into Mystery and based part of his Loki on it(and he later sent in a letter for the final issue of the book where he praised it to the sky).

edited 25th Jun '15 1:04:06 AM by LordofLore

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#36941: Jun 25th 2015 at 12:59:37 AM

I imagine a lot of it is somewhat standard procedure. Bucky's actor cited the Brubaker run specifically, and said that after he read it he got the idea to improvise a little in TFA hoping it would work as foreshadowing in case they decided to adapt the Winter Soldier arc. The actors for the Maximoff twins also mentioned playing up the Incest Yay vibes because the Ultimates run made up at least part of their reading. And Falcon's seems like a comic buff in general, which is really cute. He was referencing some of the more recent comic developments in a Civil War interview a while back.

edited 25th Jun '15 1:00:53 AM by AlleyOop

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#36942: Jun 25th 2015 at 1:10:32 AM

Yeah, I imagine that Marvel has a greatest hits collection of comics for all their characters that best define who they are.

So they still shouldn't have given her Irredeemable Ant Man, then. tongue

edited 25th Jun '15 1:11:55 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#36943: Jun 25th 2015 at 1:23:37 AM

I'm interested in one particular secret moment from these reports that's apparently pretty exciting for comic fans. I wonder.

Maybe they'll include this scene to the movie?

Maybe not.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#36944: Jun 25th 2015 at 1:27:17 AM

I'm wagering not. tongue

Could it be the Hawkeye arrow thing? I can't imagine it is, but what else would be really cool in this context that would also define Ant-Man's relationship with the greater Marvel universe, as the scene apparently does?

edited 25th Jun '15 1:29:53 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#36945: Jun 25th 2015 at 1:28:05 AM

They're probably saving that for Civil War.

Anyway I notice that the "List of 29 facts about Ant-Man" includes mention of a fight in a briefcase, which is exactly what Joblo reported on quite a while back. So I guess that's another credibility plus for them. Good because I'm liking most of what they have to say.

edited 25th Jun '15 1:30:37 AM by AlleyOop

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36947: Jun 25th 2015 at 7:01:16 AM

That said I'm getting the impression from some other press stuff that Hope's role is basically "utter badass who has to train the shlubby protagonist to be better than her." Meh.

Agreed.

I would like to say, "Marvel Studios, don't do that, you're better than that," but I just don't have that confidence anymore.

edited 25th Jun '15 7:03:17 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#36948: Jun 25th 2015 at 7:07:29 AM

I thought they already made it perfectly clear why it's Scott wearing the suit and not Hope?

It's because yeah, Hope knows how to handle herself, and she could put on the suit and be a superhero easy. But they don't need a superhero, they need a thief. They need someone who already knows how to sneak into places and disable systems, who would be even better at it when you give him a suit that lets him shrink down.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36949: Jun 25th 2015 at 7:52:38 AM

It's pretty clear from what they've said that the major in-story reason is that Pym doesn't want her wearing the suit because he thinks it's too dangerous after what happened to her mother.

It features Ant-Man using the suit to spy on Carol Danvers in the shower

Which is probably why it was a particularly bad comic to give to an actress who frequently makes a point of talking about sexism in Hollywood.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36950: Jun 25th 2015 at 8:17:21 AM

[up]Honestly, they should have just given her the original Silver Age comics, or at least Buisek's Avengers run. Because you'd think, for someone who's supposed to be playing, for all intents and the purposes, the Wasp, they'd give her something with the freaking Wasp.

edited 25th Jun '15 8:30:28 AM by kkhohoho


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