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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36601: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:21:24 PM

So I'm a little late to the party, but after the How It Should Have Ended of Age Of Ultron (part 2) aired, I found myself asking....

Why did they stop?

I mean, why let Ultron, who clearly could not fight back at that point, get any breathing room at all? Why not just keep blasting him until even the Vibranium gave up?

Sure, Hulk punching him was funny, but because they did that, it led to Quicksilver dying.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36602: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:25:39 PM

They ran out of mana, obvs.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36603: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:34:01 PM

[up]

Your Sarcasm doesn't answer my question!!!!!!

Begone from my sight, lest my cane find you backside!!!!!

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36604: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:36:03 PM

That could be an actual answer, though: They stopped because the combined attack was tiring them out, so they took a pause to breathe and in that mean-time Hulk punched him away.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36605: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:36:15 PM

I think its obvious that they can't just keep blasting forever.

Machines need a cooldown. There's only so much charge in the air. Etc etc.

That it happened to all of them at the same time is just narrative convienece, a way to simplify the action.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36606: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:50:31 PM

Ok, that does make sense. I mean, they actually started within a few seconds of each other (Vision, then Thor, then Iron Man), so all of them stopping at once isn't so crazy.

Funny thing, now that I've seen Age Of Ultron, I finally really understand how the Staff could Mind Control everyone.

So I guess we have a confirmation of the Loki was being mind-controlled by the staff theory as well.

Sure, he'd has probably done something in the same vein anyway, but still, we know what it can do, since it's an infinity stone, so it's hardly a stretch.

I really love re-watching the old movies after seeing newer ones.

Noticing the old man in the audience who tells off Loki (he's the only one not facing Loki, and you can practically see the moment where he just says I'm not going through this bullshit again!), and actually seeing the moment where Banner unknowingly takes the staff (you can see his arm drift near it, because before then he had his arms crossed).

It all ties together beautifully.

One Strip! One Strip!
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#36607: Jun 19th 2015 at 4:58:11 PM

[up][up]Agreed, I think that scene represents the longest sustained blast from any of those characters so I wouldn't consider it a plot hole.

And even if they have a longer sustained blast in a future movie, it still isn't a plot hole since we could assume they either upgraded or gained more mastery over their abilities in the interim. Even in Thor's case he's only actually had the hammer since Thor 1, so it's not unreasonable that he still hasn't 100% mastered it's capabilities.

edited 19th Jun '15 4:58:29 PM by Falrinn

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36608: Jun 19th 2015 at 5:53:17 PM

He's had the hammer a lot longer than the first Thor - in that movie, he just lost and then regained the hammer.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36609: Jun 19th 2015 at 5:54:34 PM

Yeah he's had the hammer for what's most likely several centuries before the first Thor.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#36610: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:06:13 PM

[up][up]

It's been awhile since I watched the first movie, but I believe Odin was presenting the hammer to him for the first time at the beginning of the movie. Mjølnir might of been around for some time before that, but Thor wasn't using it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36611: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:10:13 PM

During the coronation, Odin mentions that Thor has been "long trusted" with Mjolnir, so it's probably been a while since he first got it.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36612: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:11:23 PM

If Thor getting Mjolnir was a recent thing the legends wouldn't portray him as wielding it.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36614: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:14:02 PM

[up][up] Though to be fair, the backstory messed up the timescale between the legends and Thor's childhood a bit.

edited 19th Jun '15 6:14:31 PM by KnownUnknown

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#36615: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:25:43 PM

I always figured the myths in the MCU were mostly made up, and that Thor and Loki were named after two of Odin's buddies who died in the war and they kind of took on their personalities after hearing stories about them.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36616: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:29:05 PM

But if Thor losing Mjolnir hadn't happened yet, the legends wouldn't depict that at all.

The legends don't depict him losing the hammer. They depict him with the hammer. It's only during the first Thor that he loses the hammer and then gets it back when he proves himself "worthy."

[up] Um, no, where would you get that idea? They literally show a scene of Thor and Loki as children.

edited 19th Jun '15 6:29:58 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36617: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:29:10 PM

An alternate theory is that the myths were in some way prophetic. The Norse already had a pretty good idea of how Ragnarok would play out so maybe they had some way of knowing what would happen to the Asgardians.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36618: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:30:56 PM

In the main Marvel universe, the Norse myths are cyclical and all the Norse gods are trapped in something called the Ragnarok Cycle (caused by They Who Sit Above in Shadow). So yes, there were previous versions of the Norse gods, more similar to the legends.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36619: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:31:50 PM

Incidentally in the Norse myths the Mjolnir has nothing to do with worthiness. Lifting it is a pure matter of strength, and (if I recall correctly) Thor has to use some sort of strength-enhancing belt to lift it.

Which does fit with how the hammer only acquired that aspect in recent times in the MCU.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#36620: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:39:59 PM

[up][up][up][up]Well yeah, they're both just a thousand years old, which makes them younger than the myths of them, so I have a theory that Odin named his kids after the original Loki and original Thor (who were his buddies or brothers or something).

The kids took on the personalities of the originals from the stories they heard of them, and the differences from the myths and the actual Asgardians in the MCU is just from the random drift myths go through.

edited 19th Jun '15 6:40:11 PM by Ekuran

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36621: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:49:11 PM

[up] Like I said before, in the Marvel universe, the Norse myths are cyclical. These are the real Thor and Loki...but a different iteration or version.

In Thor Disassembled, we actually see prior versions of Thor and Loki and they look like the original myths. (That's also the book where Thor ended the Ragnarok Cycle and all the Norse gods died, including him. They got better.)

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#36622: Jun 19th 2015 at 6:50:42 PM

Uh, I'm talking about the MCU.

edited 19th Jun '15 6:51:27 PM by Ekuran

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#36624: Jun 19th 2015 at 7:05:51 PM

Fuller list from Gawker.

"There appears to be one slight, hopeful loophole here: Spider-Man is only barred from selling and/or distributing illegal drugs, which means he’s free to use them recreationally."

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36625: Jun 19th 2015 at 7:07:25 PM

Uh, I'm talking about the MCU.

Yes, but there's nothing in the MCU that states that these aren't the real Thor and Loki.


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