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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36526: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:31:23 PM

[up][up] It's true. Like the FBI, they hire based on skillset moreso than moral position and are more than willing to take you right out of jail and stick a badge on you.

It's why I feel embarrassed for any writer that puts, "Avengers don't kill!" in their comic. They're peacekeepers, not bastions of morality.

edited 16th Jun '15 12:31:43 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36527: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:40:36 PM

(last page) I must have some sort of internalized racism towards dinosaurs, because I have never liked Jurassic Park. I knew about it when I was little and never gave it a chance, and even now that I'm older and I've seen the first film, I still don't see what was so great about.

Even the dinobots from Transformers rubbed me the wrong way.

edited 16th Jun '15 12:49:44 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#36528: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:43:47 PM

[up][up][up]True, but still. It is not like they could have know at the time.tongue

[up][up]The FBI at last do some background check, right? And it is not like they give full powers to the former criminals who have just entered the organization. What made the "Avengers Quartet" notable was that 75% of its members were former criminals who had barely proved themselves by that point. And they were all full Avengers, on the same level as Captain America, to the point that the position of leadership was in debate. Sure, Captain became the leader, but the fact there was even a discussion to begin with is rather bizarre.

Of course, we all know that these three were good people and everything went swimmingly after that. But it is still a bit silly when you look back.

edited 16th Jun '15 12:44:05 PM by Heatth

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#36529: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:49:45 PM

I'm okay with the reason from the comics; the name sounded cool and that's what they went with. Really, we didn't need the whole "let's pretend Coulson is dead, so they can have someone to Avenge" plot.

Hell, Tony's line to Loki only makes sense if you assume the team will fail their objective.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36530: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:51:45 PM

It's been joked several times in-canon that "Defenders" makes much more sense as a name, but it's unfortunately already being used.

[up][up]The only one who had any real excuse was Hawkeye, because Stark vouched for him. Which was also kind of stupid because he only vouched because Clint took him aside and said he was really sorry for trying to kill him multiple times.

edited 16th Jun '15 12:52:52 PM by comicwriter

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36531: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:56:08 PM

Didn't Black Panther get on the team because he turned up at the lair one day and said Cap sent him there? The Avengers are really lax about their membership rules.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36532: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:56:24 PM

[up][up][up][up] They literally hire people from prison. That's how a lot of FBI hackers got their jobs; they were arrested for the cyber-crimes they committed, then offered deals to come work for the FBI catching other people doing what they were doing. If you make it hard enough for the FBI to catch you, there's a chance you'll get a job offer once they finally do.

The FBI takes the principle of "It takes a thief to catch a thief" very literally.

edited 16th Jun '15 12:57:28 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#36533: Jun 16th 2015 at 12:58:03 PM

Which reminds me, how are people feeling about a Thunderbolts movie? Which run would you like adapted?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#36535: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:00:57 PM

Perhaps I should have clarified; a hypothetical Thunderbolts movie.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36536: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:04:44 PM

In fairness, the X-Men vouched for Wanda and Pietro as I recall.

And Black Panther had Cap call in before Panther ever showed up to advise he was recommending him to take his spot in the roster.

It was better than the time when Swordsman got in based on a forged recommendation from Iron Man at least.

Or the time Pym offered Loki a position on the team after Loki had spent an extended period of time deceiving them.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36537: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:05:48 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]Yes Cap sent him there but radioed first. And then Panther had the good fortune to arrive right after someone had apparently murdered the team and framed him for the crime.

Thunderbolts would be cool but they need to start laying the groundwork first, I think. Hopefully they use Baron Zemo well in Civil War and start building from there.

edited 16th Jun '15 1:06:51 PM by comicwriter

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#36538: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:07:20 PM

The only one who had any real excuse was Hawkeye, because Stark vouched for him. Which was also kind of stupid because he only vouched because Clint took him aside and said he was really sorry for trying to kill him multiple times.

That is what I am talking about. It is Tony vouching for him that I find really bizarre.

They literally hire people from prison. That's how a lot of FBI hackers got their jobs; they were arrested for the cyber-crimes they committed, then offered deals to come work for the FBI catching other people doing what they were doing. If you make it hard enough for the FBI to catch you, there's a chance you'll get a job offer once they finally do.

I know? But that is not what I am talking about, though. Nothing wrong with hiring former criminals per se, but the FBI is not 75% composed by them. Specially not by the ones who were out of prison for, like, an year top. And certainly none of them start by being in the running for Director of the agency. Also, I am not an specialist, but I would guess they make some background check and put them on supervision at last for a while.

Again, the problem is not that the Avengers were taking criminals in their ranks. The problem was they were taking criminals into the ranks without giving any thought,barely no supervision and with plenty powers. Hell, if the Twins were still evil, they would be 50% of the team, which is more than enough to hold the others off until the Mutant Brotherhood arrives.

In fairness, the X-Men vouched for Wanda and Pietro as I recall.

True, but it is not like the Avengers even knew the X Men all that well. And eventually they kinda stopped trusting each other

And Black Panther had Cap call in before Panther ever showed up to advise he was recommending him to take his spot in the roster.

I was okay with Panther. Him joining was a bit sudden, but, as you said, Cap called ahead. And Panther was never a criminal to begin with. Also, the first thing Panther did when joining was to save everyone else from death. That helps.

edited 16th Jun '15 1:10:16 PM by Heatth

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36539: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:10:02 PM

In fairness the big roster shakeup probably only happened a month or two into the team's existence in universe. They were probably still figuring most of this stuff out.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36540: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:12:00 PM

That's true. They were far from a well-oiled machine.

As I recall, didn't the Kooky Quartet happen because everyone disbanded and Cap was like, "No, I WILL keep this going somehow!"

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36541: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:13:39 PM

Somehow I thought the MCU Avengers were around longer than just a couple of months.

You meant a different team?

edited 16th Jun '15 1:14:38 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36542: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:14:10 PM

This was back before a lot of the face heel turns and whatnot. Back in a time when you could trust people because even Wonder Men that were supposed to kill you would sacrifice themselves to save you.

What makes it weirder is that the Avengers were all planning to go on vacation and have a team consisting of only Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. The fact that Cap showed back up was a lucky stroke because they could go 'hey take care of these newbies for us, k?'

In faiiiiiiiiiiiirness they also tried to recruit Namor (ALSO A VILLAIN at the time) and told the new team to try to re-recruit Hulk to get some muscle on the team.

uh membership drives became a bit less haphazard in the future though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#36543: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:18:52 PM

The Avengers really got into recruit everybody mode in modern times though. I'm not even sure how many Avengers there are nowadays - there were arguments on who got to use the name before SW if I remember correctly.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36544: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:21:35 PM

Those arguments were predicated on villainy, so they don't count.

Tony Stark was inverted in the event immediately preceeding it into an evil bastard, and he was suing Luke Cage's team for calling themselves Avengers mostly because he was an evil bastard and he could.

He went on to mass-produce Extremis and distribute it freely in order to deliberately get people addicted and then upcharge the hell out of them once hooked.

edited 16th Jun '15 1:23:01 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#36545: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:21:41 PM

Soble: We're talking about the comics Avengers. The movie Avengers seem to have taken a break for a year after Avengers 1 and then got back together a few months before AOU to fight Hydra.

edited 16th Jun '15 1:22:25 PM by Kostya

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36546: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:23:56 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah the final issue of Mighty Avengers has them having to take down their banner because Tony Stark sued them for calling themselves "Avengers" without paying him.

That's where the most recent discussion about "Defenders" making more sense as a name came from.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36547: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:25:32 PM

Inverted Tony Stark, mind you.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36548: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:26:09 PM

Alas, they're not the first team of Avengers that got Stark'd out of the name.

Poor Great Lakes Avengers

Unrelated, Quicksilver's secret dream

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#36549: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:40:07 PM

Yeah the final issue of Mighty Avengers has them having to take down their banner

They had to kill their Hulk? That's so sad!

"We're home, Chewie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36550: Jun 16th 2015 at 1:58:54 PM

Of course, the last issue of Captain America and the Mighty Avengers ended with the world coming to an end and everyone dying, so it could've been worse.

edited 16th Jun '15 1:59:05 PM by alliterator


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