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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36476: Jun 15th 2015 at 4:45:07 PM

Man-Spider has appeared in the comics as well.

The Six-Arms thing first popped up in a story from the 70's, caused by basically the same thing - a formula supercharges Spider-Man's powers and causes him to mutate. He didn't turn into a Spider-mutant in that instance, but it's happened since: I don't know whether the 90's series invented it or not, though. So far the earliest I can find is a storyline from 98.

edited 15th Jun '15 4:50:50 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36477: Jun 15th 2015 at 4:46:11 PM

American cartoons vastly go back and forth on censorship. For instance the same decade that gave us a cartoon where Spider-Man wasn't allowed to punch anyone also had Batman: The Animated Series, one of the darkest and most adult superhero cartoons ever made.

A lot of it is whenever there's a high profile controversy, there's a huge push to try and censor whatever medium it was blamed on. A lot of the 90's censorship stemmed from stuff like angry parents complaining accusing shows like Power Rangers of causing a bunch of child injuries.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36478: Jun 15th 2015 at 4:55:49 PM

I think it has to do with the shows being on different networks.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#36479: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:00:35 PM

[up] I think they were both on Fox Kids.

Make mine Marvel.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36480: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:04:27 PM

Batman TAS was on WB.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36481: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:05:53 PM

[up]

Batman: The Animated Series, one of the darkest and most adult superhero cartoons ever made.
.

You should watch Spawn the Animated Series. And Gargoyles. And Exosquad. Watch those if you want adult.

edited 15th Jun '15 5:16:07 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36482: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:09:19 PM

I'd also argue that Batman's TAS wasn't that dark. The films maybe, but the series not so much. Darkest episodes were My Silicone Soul, the one where Bruce was hypnotized, the episode where Joker took that one guy hostage, and the one with Lock-Up.

...why do I always end up talking DC in Marvel topics, and talking Marvel in DC topics, I need to stop....

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36483: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:09:20 PM

[up][up][up]It was on Fox. The later Retool The New Batman Adventures aired on WB.

edited 15th Jun '15 5:09:45 PM by comicwriter

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36484: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:13:40 PM

Hm, I remember watching the original series on wb

curse you memory!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
zam Since: Jun, 2009
#36485: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:23:36 PM

Batman tas did all sorts of tricks to make it's content seem less dark. I think censorship is more wil kids be affected negatively? than is this actual bad content? if that makes sense.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#36486: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:36:50 PM

I remember a thing about the Scarecrow fear gas/batgirl episode that censors made them change the POV for when batgirl fell off a building onto her dad's squad car and that the change made it look even more brutal.

Whoops!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36487: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:38:41 PM

Oh. And that. Yes, definitely that episode.

And the deaths didn't stop there.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36488: Jun 15th 2015 at 5:38:57 PM

Robin's Reckoning was definitely the darkest episode of the original series. The New Batman Adventures was allowed to do a bit darker things, but typically did so without the same weight. Batman Beyond was the one that mixed "dark" and "camp" the most evenly though, imo.

edited 15th Jun '15 5:39:06 PM by KnownUnknown

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#36489: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:17:46 PM

Beyond managed to get away with ALOT because most of the characters were entirely new for the show, so they didn't have to worry about killing them off.

Also, remember the episode with the radioactive dirt mummy monster? I don't think that show HAD a Censor.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#36490: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:24:16 PM

What I find hilarious about the cartoon version of Carnage is that he was collecting souls for Dotmmamu which was essentially s fate worse than death. Hell, when Venom is trapped in Dormmamu's realm with Carnage his therapist actually says he will find peace!

As for Mornuis/Black Cat there's some fridge brilliance with that pairing; their animal motifs are a bat and cat respectively. That or the writers were trying to copy Angel/Buffy with none of the nuance that made it interesting.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#36491: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:32:26 PM

It's not quite as bad as having your plasma drunk.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36492: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:34:10 PM

@Soble: Here's the uncut version.

"Well, that was fun! Who's up for Chinese?"

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36493: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:47:49 PM

Got to wonder if the Marvel Universe, or the movies for that matter, will ever have a character that delightfully insane.

I know Punisher has Jigsaw, but I think he leans more to sadism than comedy.

edited 15th Jun '15 6:48:01 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#36494: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:50:47 PM

What about Bullseye? Or Carnage? The Green Goblin?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36495: Jun 15th 2015 at 9:11:07 PM

Bullseye also leans toward sadism.

The Green Goblin is at his weakest when he tries to be the Joker.

Carnage is TOO insane. Literally, there was an intercompany crossover once where the Joker and Carnage teamed up that ended poorly because Carnage is too f*cked up for even the Joker to deal with.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36496: Jun 15th 2015 at 9:35:36 PM

Well, there's only one choice for the craziest, the zaniest villain EVER.

Yes, that's right: it's the IMPOSSIBLE MAN!

...what do you mean, he's owned by Fox? Crap.

Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#36497: Jun 16th 2015 at 3:45:20 AM

Same guy who forgot how the Cancerverse worked. He doesn't read the bibles.

Most infamously, Bendis is the guy who conveniently forgot that the Scarlet Witch had actually gotten over the loss of her kids, just so he could do another "Wanda goes crazy because of her lost children" story, even though John Byrne had already done the same thing 10 years earlier, and most Avengers fans hated that story, and only a few years before Bendis took hold of the Avengers, Kurt Busiek had done a wonderful job in repairing the damage Byrne did to Wanda and the Vision, only for Bendis to tear it all apart once more so he could make the Scarlet Witch crazy again and kill the Vision (plus Hawkeye and Ant-Man), which was only done so he could have the Avengers consist of his favourite characters (Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Sentry, etc) instead of, you know, the characters most comic readers had associated with the Avengers for the past 30+ years. So yeah, he just doesn't care.

I think pretty much the best thing to have come out of the success of Age of Ultron is that the Scarlet Witch and the Vision are probably so well-established now, that the Marvel comics editors won't let anyone ruin them again the way Bendis did.

edited 16th Jun '15 3:48:53 AM by Tuomas

Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#36498: Jun 16th 2015 at 3:53:51 AM

And just to make it clear, I don't necessarily think New Avengers was a bad comic, or that Bendis should've kept on writing stories about the classic Avengers, even though he didn't like those characters. I just don't get why Bendis had to ruin and kill them instead of, you know, have them retire or something.

edited 16th Jun '15 3:54:33 AM by Tuomas

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36499: Jun 16th 2015 at 6:45:44 AM

He tried to kill off Carnage too, but his total ignorance of symbiote mechanics outside the 90's cartoon ruined the effort. He had Sentry rip Carnage in half and leave him stranded in orbit with his symbiote intact. It's long been established that a) symbiotes can sustain their host from life-threatening injuries, and b) symbiotes are capable of entering a hibernative coma that protects them from the vacuum of space.

The funny thing is that even if he'd known this and tried to go the full mile, blasting off Kasady's symbiote, the "ripped him in half" part would still have ruined the effort. Though some writers forget this, it's also long been established that Kasady is fully bonded with his symbiote; it's mixed with his blood and lives in his veins. Any effort at destroying the external symbiote can be undone by scratching himself, drawing blood, and releasing more symbiote.

So, all in all, this was an entirely pointless gesture at killing off the character and, when the Carnage miniseries came out and had to bring Carnage back, they just went with the obvious explanation that he didn't die because of course he didn't die. The narratively hard part was getting him down from orbit without burning him up in re-entry.

edited 16th Jun '15 6:49:48 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#36500: Jun 16th 2015 at 7:20:43 AM

Bendis didn't actually populate the Avengers with his favorite characters (if he did, he would have included Daredevil and he specifically made sure not to). He actually did Avengers Disassembled because they needed to revamp the Avengers (it had slowly been losing readers for a while) and decided to populate it with popular characters — basically, they said, "Wait, why haven't we been including Spider-Man and Wolverine?"


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