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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#35726: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:10:03 PM

I believe this is what is called a Dumb-joke-ception-geddon.

We're taking your action, or in this case words, and making better things based off it.

Kinda like Ultron, actually.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#35727: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:11:43 PM

If I can get over Hank being old and retired and not being Ant-Man in favor of Scott, I think I can handle Janet being old and having passed away and not being Wasp in favor of Hope.

It's evident that the movie is doing a "their day is over" / "relics from a bygone age" thing with both Hank and Janet, and it's been clear that the main difference between them in that regard is that Hank happens to have not died yet.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:12:00 PM by KnownUnknown

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35728: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:12:49 PM

Oh dude I just realized. Hank is totally gonna get Obi-Wan'd isn't he.

"We're home, Chewie."
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#35729: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:14:16 PM

Why does the Ant-Man trailer actually look good? They're not allowed to do that.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#35730: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:15:17 PM

[up][up]Either that or reveal himself to be a bad guy.

This song needs more love.
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35731: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:15:38 PM

[up][up]If there's one thing Marvel is good at, it's making ridiculous concepts hella rad.

See: Friendship of Treebeard-Vin Diesel and talking raccoon.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:15:56 PM by Zarek

"We're home, Chewie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#35732: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:17:04 PM

Add me to the group that thinks the over reliance on witticisms killed Ultron as a character.

My various fanfics.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#35733: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:17:39 PM

My money's on Hank turning out to be the real antagonist. The trailers gave way too much about the supposed bad guy, his plan and his ultimate fight with Scott for him to be the true Big Bad.

My current theory is that Hank and Janet had similar approaches to who they are as the ones seen in EMH - Janet loved life and being a hero/Agent of SHIELD/whatever they were in this universe, while Hank was ultimately consumed by his inner demons and self-loathing. Though I see Hank as an Anti-Villain at worst.

The thing we know, that Janet was involved in some kind of shrinking incident (which I figure is how she became Wasp in the first place), plays into this: Hank could never get over his guilt over causing it, while Janet didn't care and loved the fact that she could do extraordinary things, and his inability to get over himself split them apart.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:21:49 PM by KnownUnknown

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#35734: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:17:41 PM

Add me to the group that thinks the over reliance on witticisms killed Ultron as a character.

[up]Same here!

edited 1st Jun '15 7:18:03 PM by Guy01

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35735: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:18:21 PM

You guys never watched superhero cartoons as kids, did you?

Or, rather, your the type of people that don't still enjoy them.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#35737: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:20:25 PM

Look, compare EMH Ultron and Movie Comedian Ultron. Who do you see as a bigger threat?

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#35738: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:20:26 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong, Skeletor is hilarious. But at no point is Skeletor, or Mum-Ra, or Lord Zedd, or Rita Repulsa, or 80s Shredder, or The Legion of Doom, an actual threat to the heroes. They exist to concoct ludicrous, easily-defeated schemes for world domination in enough time for the hero to look at the camera and tell you to stay in teeth, drink you drugs, and don't take milk.

My various fanfics.
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35739: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:20:26 PM

Add me to the group that thinks the over reliance on witticisms killed Ultron as a character.

Oh man, I am the exact opposite. That's what made Ultron work for me.

I'm still not entirely sure whether he's beat Loki for favorite Marvel villain, though. (Main villain, I mean. Otherwise Nebula, duh.)

"We're home, Chewie."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35740: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:20:34 PM

I love superhero cartoons, but what works in superhero cartoons doesn't always work in movies.

Like, Ultron should not be talking like, I dunno, Xander. Just....no.

Also, I hate Xander.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:21:21 PM by higherbrainpattern

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#35741: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:20:55 PM

You guys never watched superhero cartoons as kids, did you? Or, rather, your the type of people that don't still enjoy them

Actually, I think Marvel's cartoons tend to be a lot better than their movies (well, besides the current batch of crappy Disney cartoons...)

edited 1st Jun '15 7:21:36 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#35742: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:22:21 PM

Lord Zedd, or Rita Repulsa

Oh I dunno, those two came up with some pretty good plans here and there.

Then again, I'm a Ranger fan, so maybe it's that talking.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35743: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:23:28 PM

[up]x3 I hate Xander, too.

But that might be what makes him such a good villain.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Skeletor is hilarious. But at no point is Skeletor, or Mum-Ra, or Lord Zedd, or Rita Repulsa, or 80s Shredder, or The Legion of Doom, an actual threat to the heroes.
The thing is, I don't think villains really need to be. At least not in the context of a superhero movie.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:23:50 PM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#35744: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:25:03 PM

[up][up]I am the biggest power rangers fan ever, and even I realize that Power Rangers villains, by and large, stopped being threatening after parents wrote angry letters about Zedd being scary.

My various fanfics.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35745: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:25:14 PM

[up]Oh c'mon, Xanders' fine. He was The Heart and the Plucky Comic Relief rolled into one. What's not to like?

edited 1st Jun '15 7:25:24 PM by kkhohoho

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#35746: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:26:05 PM

Look, I'd be willing to look past its flaws and accept Age of Ultron as a wacky action adventure movie with no depth or seriousness to it whatsoever, except that's clearly not what the filmmakers were going for. I mean, just look at the scene where Ultron and Vision discuss the worth of humanity.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:26:23 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35747: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:26:30 PM

Actually, this is something that I love about Loki: He kinda isn't a threat. Not to the Avengers themselves, anyway, except by using the scepter. But Loki himself? He gets one-upped consistently and I love it. Like, every time he has a badass moment, he gets knocked right back down. Gets a trained assassin to cry? Turns out she was faking it to get information out of him, God of Tricksters just got tricked. Catches an arrow? It's an exploding arrow.

I adore that aspect of him. One might say it has an element of...relatability. Huehuehuehue.

"We're home, Chewie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#35748: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:27:34 PM

It's a toss up, and depended on the scenes. Imo, the issue wasn't that Ultron was gaggy and full of one-liners, it's that there was never a point in the movie where he wasn't like that - as if either the writers or Whedon thought that every tense moment needed to be defused by some kind of joke. It's ramped up a lot from the first Avengers film, where it was already noticeable, and it shows.

In a lot of scenes it works - the scene with Claue, for example, mixes menace and humor excellently in Ultron's character, and his almost childish way of interacting with people works out very well there. In the final battle, on the other hand, a lot of Ultron's attempts to create an air of menace were undercut by the fact that he was played for humor quite a bit, especially when he was losing. I'd even argue that Quicksilver's death lost some of the impact it might have had because it was surrounded by scenes that didn't support it well.

In general, the fact that they went for humor over menace for most of the villains in parts of the movie where they're otherwise trying to be intimidating hurt their ability to do the latter. Even moreso than Ultron, Strucker came of as a total joke for that reason.

Though I'm not familiar with Joss' other work, something I notice from the Avengers movies is that Joss tends to go for "badass and snarky" over deeper characterizatoin - at least initially. Though I like the Avengers movies thus far, I won't exactly miss him in Infinity War for this reason: Thanos is definitely a villain that needs gravitas.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:29:04 PM by KnownUnknown

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35749: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:28:08 PM

[up] x 4 Well, he's kind of a creep, for one.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:28:31 PM by higherbrainpattern

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35750: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:28:19 PM

Ultron was plenty threatening, I just felt his character was weakened by being a Whedon snarker.


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