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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#35701: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:27:37 PM

Will believe that they're including Wasp when I see it. Will believe it's done well when I see it done well. But I'm not just going to assume it will be.

And to agree with the previous poster: killing off a character's wife - who was a founding member of the Avengers - to give him angst isn't suddenly okay because they might be giving her role to someone else.

edited 1st Jun '15 6:29:44 PM by Galadriel

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#35702: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:28:14 PM

@Gaon-

Yeah. That's something I don't really get. I mean I kind of agree with or at least understand the argument that they could have had an older Janet instead of an older Hank (because there really aren't any mother-child relationships in the MCU). On the other hand though, Hope is blatantly a Composite Character with Janet. She even has the distinctive haircut.

edited 1st Jun '15 6:28:52 PM by Hodor2

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35703: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:28:42 PM

God I hope there's at least one more language gag in either Infinity War Episode I The Thantom Menace or in Civil War.

"We're home, Chewie."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35704: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:30:06 PM

I hated the "Language!" gag, so I don't.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#35705: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:30:39 PM

I hope there's not. It was silly and reduced Cap to the stereotype of old-fogey-from-the-40s instead of building on his characterization in Winter Soldier.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35706: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:31:49 PM

It was silly and reduced Cap to the stereotype of old-fogey-from-the-40s instead of building on his characterization in Winter Soldier.

It...did not, though. Like, at all. The joke is that Cap was just making a joke when he said it and everyone else kept making fun of him for it.

"We're home, Chewie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#35707: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:32:42 PM

Even if Janet is out of the picture completely, a lot of her character is probably going to be folded into Hope van Dyme. And I will be surprised if Hope van Dyme doesn't become the Wasp within the movie, and even if she stays normal sized the whole movie she's definitely going to be on that trajectory.

edited 1st Jun '15 6:33:48 PM by Falrinn

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35708: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:33:22 PM

I agree with Galadriel. The " Cap can't stand bad language" gag was just shitty.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35709: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:34:13 PM

But...but that's not what that joke was! I would agree with you that that would be a lame joke but the joke in the movie was not that one! He swears in the movie!

"We're home, Chewie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#35710: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:35:09 PM

[up][up]I thought it was more "Cap acts like Tony's dad briefly and gets made fun of for it."

edited 1st Jun '15 6:35:36 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35711: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:35:57 PM

[up][up] Yes, he does swear! And he's swore in previous movies in the MCU! Which is why I don't understand why Joss decided that gag should be included in AOU at all, much less than in the very first scene of the movie!

edited 1st Jun '15 6:36:16 PM by higherbrainpattern

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#35712: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:37:18 PM

I disagree. I would have loved that.

No, no, in all seriousness, that would've made the movie suck. We already have Timon and Pumba to fill the movie's quota of one-liners. Heck, Scar's death scene already has jokes in it, albeit morbid ones ("Friends? I thought you said we were the enemy...") The difference is, Lion King does a much better job balancing its humor and drama so it's not jarring, at least in my opinion.

People can like characters for superficial reasons. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, but you're supposed to feel an emotional connection to Thor, at least in his own movies where he's the main protagonist, so if the audience doesn't, the writers have failed at their job. I mean, movies are supposed to have some kind of compelling narrative or characters - some kind of meat to them. Otherwise, I might as well just read Axe Cop. At least Axe Cop doesn't even bother pretending to have nuanced storytelling.

And I guess you can make an argument for part of him being interesting are the parts of him that are "relatable," yeah. He feels feels sometimes like us mortals, and that makes the audience feel feels, and I respect that.

The question is, would Thor still be a good character if he didn't make the audience "feel feels?" If all he had going for him was "wacky bombastic Norse hammer guy?"

The problem is (at least in my opinion) that the movie already had so darn many one-liners that at that point, Quicksilver's line didn't stand out in any meaningful way. It's like the saying, "If you highlight everything, nothing gets highlighted."

edited 1st Jun '15 6:38:54 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35713: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:37:39 PM

Because Cap was joking. He was being "ironic" as the kids say.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35714: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:37:41 PM

The Language joke is largely bad I agree.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#35715: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:38:06 PM

[up]x5 That's what my interpretation was as well.

edited 1st Jun '15 6:38:26 PM by Falrinn

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35716: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:40:02 PM

[up][up][up] His tone of voice didn't sound like he was joking. He sounded pretty serious to me.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35717: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:40:40 PM

Yes, he does swear! And he's swore in previous movies in the MCU! Which is why I don't understand why Joss decided that gag should be included in AOU at all, much less than in the very first scene of the movie!

Because it was funny?

Like, I feel like you think the joke is making fun of Cap, and it's not. The joke is everyone else making fun of Cap for one dumb thing he said and not letting it go.

The question is, would Thor still be a good character if he didn't make the audience "feel feels?" If all he had going for him was "wacky bombastic Norse hammer guy?"

No, of course not.

But none of the characters in AOU were wacky bombastic Norse hammer guy, either. They had feelsy stuff.

[up]That is called "sarcastic," and every Joss Whedon character is it.

Which is a legitimate criticism of his writing, I'll grant you.

edited 1st Jun '15 6:41:39 PM by Zarek

"We're home, Chewie."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#35718: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:43:51 PM

Well, forgive me for not getting the "joke" . Because I thought it was a pretty shitty joke in the first place.

EDIT: Also, no way that was sarcasm from Cap. I know what sarcasm is, and that wasn't it. That was pure Joss going "hahaha, look, Steve's a guy from the 40s!! he's basically like a grandpa!!!! I'm gonna write a shitty gag based on that!!!"

edited 1st Jun '15 6:45:59 PM by higherbrainpattern

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#35719: Jun 1st 2015 at 6:43:56 PM

But none of the characters in AOU were wacky bombastic Norse hammer guy, either. They had feelsy stuff.

Yeah, but not nearly enough. Like, apparently building a robot that almost wipes out the earth is mildly upsetting to Tony, but not enough so that he can't crack silly jokes before driving off into the sunset in the movie's final scene.

edited 1st Jun '15 6:44:45 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#35720: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:02:45 PM

Wow, lot of things were missed. surprised

Ant-Man: Super-hyped, though also count me in on the "filled with disappointment about Jan" thing. Even if Hope ends up becoming the Wasp... that's not, presumably, the same as Janet being the Wasp. And even if Hope looks like Janet, acts like Janet, and is the Wasp like Janet... that just poses the question of why they didn't just age Janet down and make her a contemporary of Scott's. Yeah, they couldn't explore the relationship between her and Hank then, but since it's not Hank's movie and the bulk of what most people know about it boils down to... one unfortunate incident... maybe we're better off not getting into it. And if you really had to kill off someone close to Pym... he was married before, surely you could have picked the wife who didn't become a superhero? Had Janet be his second wife if you simply couldn't not have them be in the same age group.

Banter: Ehhhhh... the Hulkbuster thing didn't bother me too much, because it's Stark, and by this point? Totally a snarky a-hole, didn't strike me as too horrible.

The "language" joke, though? If Cap was supposed to be making a joke, it certainly doesn't come across that way. Saying "just slipped out" is not something you say when you were kidding around. And if we're supposed to take it at face value... then it doesn't make sense, because Cap isn't so much of a boyscout that he'd chastise language. At least not when there are no kids around.

I lel'd at Hawkeye discussing interior renovations, though.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:03:07 PM by Khfan429

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#35721: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:06:01 PM

Cap wasn't making a joke, nor is it about him being an old fogey from the 40's.

Tony yelled "Shit!" out of nowhere, and Cap just instinctively responded "Language!" as if they were in a more mundane situation or around people with sensitive ears. It slipped out, like he said, and the joke is the other characters not letting it go much to his chagrin.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35722: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:06:37 PM

Saying "just slipped out" is not something you say when you were kidding around.

It is if you realized after you said it that it was a dumb joke.

Trust me, I have a world of experience making dumb jokes. I'm like a dumbjokesologist. I am to dumb jokes what Tony Stark is to power armor.

"We're home, Chewie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#35723: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:08:04 PM

You blew them all up in a pointless gesture that likely dumped tons of pollutants into the bay and created a shrapnel-filled tide?

edited 1st Jun '15 7:08:16 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#35724: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:08:35 PM

So you make them compulsively, with very little thought put into them, so that they're flimsy, and make a big show of destroying them to create the illusion of personal growth?

My various fanfics.
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35725: Jun 1st 2015 at 7:09:38 PM

[up][up]First of all I haven't seen that one yet. Thanks.

Secondly yes. Yes I did.

[up]That too.

Wait, hang on, that was Ultron, not Tony.

edited 1st Jun '15 7:10:24 PM by Zarek

"We're home, Chewie."

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