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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#35501: May 31st 2015 at 11:52:05 AM

[up]x4 While I wouldn't consider anyone other then the title characters of the Netflix series to be completely safe, I do know that a big part of why Hand and Hartley's relationship from the comics was never brought up on Agents of SHIELD was because they wanted to avoid introducing what would be the MCU's only same-sex couple only to immediately kill them off. So they probably won't do precisely that in Jessica Jones.

edited 31st May '15 11:53:15 AM by Falrinn

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35502: May 31st 2015 at 11:53:22 AM

Aren't the Netflix shows made by a different team? They already killed off Urich despite it being a bad idea for similar reasons.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#35503: May 31st 2015 at 11:55:47 AM

[up] I read somewhere that they wouldn't have killed him off if they had known about the Spider-Man deal.

Is Jessica Jones even being made by the same team that did Daredevil?

Oh God! Natural light!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35504: May 31st 2015 at 11:58:08 AM

I think even without the deal Urich would work well as a character that can cross over into the different series. As a reporter he'd be able to interact with all the Netflix shows pretty easily. He's also the most prominent black character on the show and they killed him off.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#35505: May 31st 2015 at 11:58:46 AM

[up][up][up]Yes and no. They have different showrunners for sure, but are both produced by Marvel's television division. So there's more overlap in management between Agents of SHIELD and Jessica Jones then Agents of SHEID and the actual movies.

edited 31st May '15 11:59:10 AM by Falrinn

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#35506: May 31st 2015 at 12:03:16 PM

They could always retcon Urich's death.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#35507: May 31st 2015 at 12:04:25 PM

No, that'd cheapen the whole plotline.

The best choice would be making a storyarc of Ben's nephew, Phil Ulrich, following his footsteps in the world of journalism in the wake of his uncle's death.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35508: May 31st 2015 at 12:05:16 PM

That's probably the best way to do things.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#35510: May 31st 2015 at 12:41:23 PM

And then he becomes the Hobgoblin. tongue

Depending on how free the deal allows them to be with Spidey's characters in non-Spider-Man media, they could always switch their newspaper of choice to the Bugle and use Robbie Robertson as a Suspiciously Similar Substitute.

edited 31st May '15 12:42:31 PM by KnownUnknown

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35511: May 31st 2015 at 12:44:30 PM

If there's one net positive to Ben's death, it would be the introduction of Robbie Robertson.

edited 31st May '15 12:44:38 PM by VeryMelon

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#35512: May 31st 2015 at 12:46:52 PM

The new Peter Parker casting news has made me less enthusiastic about seeing Marvel's Spiderman on-screen to the point where I'm pretty meh about it.

Cross (Don’t ask)
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#35514: May 31st 2015 at 1:45:19 PM

Now, hey, maybe it's just because I'm a white devil trying to cover up the evils of my other white devils, but is it just maybe possible that they'd already had the entire script written out and killed off Ben before they'd even had him cast as a black guy? I mean, I know white devils will use any excuse to kill the other races or women in media, but it might be within the realm of possibility to believe that Urich would be just as dead if he were white.

My various fanfics.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#35515: May 31st 2015 at 1:50:01 PM

[up] ...I'm not certain whether that would be the case or not. I suppose it would be forgivable if that were the case, although it would still be contributing to a trend.

And wow, maybe you want to tone it down a notch?

[down] Yeah, I think you're right.

edited 31st May '15 1:52:52 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#35516: May 31st 2015 at 1:51:39 PM

I think the decision to kill him off would have still been a poor one even if there was no racial element.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#35517: May 31st 2015 at 1:56:36 PM

Wait, people are mad that Ben died because he was black?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35519: May 31st 2015 at 2:17:00 PM

Him being Black only matters as far as representation goes. Most people just liked his character and the possible connections he could have had for the Netflix shows.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35520: May 31st 2015 at 2:17:44 PM

Ninety: Somewhat. I think it was a stupid decision anyway but the fact that he's the most important black character on the show only makes it worse.

Sonof Sharknado: Dude no one is saying it's part of some conspiracy by the evil white people to kill the black characters.

edited 31st May '15 2:19:45 PM by Kostya

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#35521: May 31st 2015 at 2:22:28 PM

Not this particular time we've had the conversation...

My various fanfics.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35522: May 31st 2015 at 2:26:44 PM

Yeah, I find it hard to believe someone on this forum specifically said that the decision to kill Urich was made solely because he's a black guy.

edited 31st May '15 2:27:28 PM by Kostya

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#35523: May 31st 2015 at 2:27:02 PM

[up][up] Then let's not accuse anyone of doing that this time.

edited 31st May '15 2:27:12 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#35524: May 31st 2015 at 2:43:10 PM

Honestly it'd be worse if they had decided he'd die before he was cast because it meant at no time during production did anyone think critically about this decision.

...okay, no, clearly no one thought about it during production anyway, so it's about the same, I guess.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#35525: May 31st 2015 at 3:22:43 PM

I think at the end of the day they killed off Ben Uric because they wanted to kill off at least one of the protagonists and all the other options would either completely derail the premise of the show and/or create even worse unfortunate implications.

Now it could be argued that the fact that there are no minority characters who are vital to the premise of the show is itself a problem, but one that won't apply to the Netflix series as a whole since Luke Cage is on his way.

Come to think of it, it could also be argued that there was no need to kill off any major protagonist at all. And I really can't argue with that, narratively Fisk needed to start taking the gloves off near the end of the season, but he didn't actually have to deal a deathblow.

edited 31st May '15 3:25:50 PM by Falrinn


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