TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#35176: May 28th 2015 at 7:38:42 PM

[up][up][up]We don't even know if MCU hammer have the power to change outfits. And, anyway, even in comics this doesn't happen always. Cap moved the hammer without becoming Thor. Transforming is an active decision, not something that just happens.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35177: May 28th 2015 at 7:38:57 PM

Cap kills but he tries to avoid it and only does it as last resort. With Nat I think she'd try to avoid it but would be willing to do it if she felt it was more convenient.

Ignoring that being a spy might be another strike against her unrelated to her moral character. The hammer might see it as dishonorable.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#35178: May 28th 2015 at 7:39:10 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]That's an interesting point.

By Thor's reaction, we're supposed to take the Vision lifting the hammer to mean that he's worthy. But there's a few suspicious things about that:

1) We never see the Vision use Thor's powers, which by all rights, he should be able to do when he picks the hammer up.

2) Even more conspicuously, we never see Ultron try to pick up the hammer, so there's no real consensus about how the hammer views artificial intelligence. Sure, Thor seems to think it counts, but then he's not the one who enchanted the hammer. Nor is he a technology expert.

edited 28th May '15 7:39:36 PM by Khfan429

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35179: May 28th 2015 at 7:40:22 PM

The hammer doesn't grant weather control and Vision can fly under his own power.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#35180: May 28th 2015 at 7:41:06 PM

[up]The hammer does grant thunder powers, though. Also, Thor's flight and Vision's flight are different. Vision's is far more versatile, but I have the feeling Thor's is fastest.

edited 28th May '15 7:41:47 PM by Heatth

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35181: May 28th 2015 at 7:41:13 PM

Like... Thor is totally willing to kill people. Mjolnir is from Asgard, I don't think it would really consider "would you kill someone" when deciding if a person is worthy.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35182: May 28th 2015 at 7:42:04 PM

On one hand I feel like arguing that the Vision isn't really worthy and is just abusing a loophole kinda misses the point of the scene.

On the other, I can't help but wonder if they threw in the exchange about elevators to intentionally spark such a debate...

"We're home, Chewie."
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#35183: May 28th 2015 at 7:42:24 PM

[up][up]Thor 2 even opened with Thor killing some rock alien.

edited 28th May '15 7:42:39 PM by Heatth

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#35184: May 28th 2015 at 7:44:05 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." Courtesy of Odin. Doesn't say "some of the power of Thor". If Thor has the power, Mjolnir should be able to grant it.

edited 28th May '15 7:45:00 PM by Khfan429

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35185: May 28th 2015 at 7:44:25 PM

Do we know for sure the hammer grants weather control? I thought that was a natural talent Thor had by virtue of being the god of thunder like how Loki can make illusions and Heimdall can spy on things.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#35186: May 28th 2015 at 7:45:38 PM

Could Thor do it when he was banished and couldn't lift Mjolnir?

No, he couldn't. That suggests his powers are now, if they weren't before, tied to Mjolnir.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35187: May 28th 2015 at 7:48:00 PM

That is a good point. I figured he never bothered to try but I don't recall him ever doing it without the hammer so I guess they are tied to it.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#35188: May 28th 2015 at 7:48:05 PM

I mean, he was just kinda handing the thing to Thor. He didn't actually try using the powers of the hammer.

"We're home, Chewie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#35189: May 28th 2015 at 7:48:06 PM

My cynical take is that they just had Vision lift Mjolnir so they didn't have to spend time on a "can we trust him or can't we" plotline on top of everything else they were doing, and figured they would work out the characterization issues later.

edited 28th May '15 7:48:15 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#35190: May 28th 2015 at 7:49:04 PM

Yes, Mjolnir grants weather control. The new Thor has it and she's completely human without the hammer (and also has cancer).

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35191: May 28th 2015 at 7:50:07 PM

Well, Vision did lift Mjolnir in the comics, didn't he?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35192: May 28th 2015 at 7:51:18 PM

I was thinking more about the movies. Thor can't fly without it but he also never controls the weather without it so from what we see I guess they are linked.

[up]No. Thor, Thunderstrike, Beta Ray Bill, Female Thor, Widow, and Cap are the only people that ever could to my knowledge.

edited 28th May '15 7:51:58 PM by Kostya

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#35193: May 28th 2015 at 7:52:46 PM

I don't know, I don't remember if he ever did.

I mean, in the early stories, machines could pick up the hammer no problem. There's an early story where Mr. Hyde uses, like, a grappling machine to grab the hammer out of Thor's hand. But that was also the time period where the hammer had some really funky powers (like, uh, traveling through time, I guess? or moving electrons? or something — look it was the Silver Age, it was goofy as shit).

edited 28th May '15 7:53:38 PM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#35194: May 28th 2015 at 7:53:15 PM

Didn't it get dramatically rainy when he went to go get the hammer?

Doesn't necessarily mean anything though.

Or it could have been the hammer acting up.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35195: May 28th 2015 at 7:53:20 PM

I could swear a ton of people were talking about Vision lifting the hammer before the movie came out.

Was there a leaked script or something?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#35196: May 28th 2015 at 7:54:00 PM

You know, that "Elevator can lift Mjolnir. But the elevator's not worthy" line bugs me. Elevator saved the people in it when Hulk went on a rampage, then let itself be used as a bludgeon by Iron Man, and on top of all that it does its duty of bringing people up and down floors without needing the stairs. I'd say elevator is more than worthy of wielding Mjolnir, and Cap's just too narrow minded.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#35197: May 28th 2015 at 7:54:18 PM

It came out in Europe first. Maybe people talked about it early because of that.

edit: I think the hammer wouldn't care about the elevator because it isn't a being.

edited 28th May '15 7:55:52 PM by Kostya

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#35200: May 28th 2015 at 7:55:28 PM

I feel like people were talking about it before it came out in Europe, though.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Total posts: 186,763
Top