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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#34851: May 25th 2015 at 8:08:27 PM

[up][up]: I think part of it is, I'm so new to actually watching movies out of enjoyment, that my mind is getting in its own way. Now that I've gone all the way through, I'm digesting more of what I've seen and going "of course, it makes sense that we're seeing them be PEOPLE, because it gives them character development and a breather from the action, both of which are Good Things™" or "of course they all have varying strengths and weaknesses — this is a team story, so they can't all do everything" or "so what if that doesn't make sense in the real world? It makes sense in this world, so just roll with it".

But when I'm actually watching it at the time, my brain keeps going "these are all just actors and CGI'd whatnots, and the only reason anyone is doing anything is because some writer said so", and I have to fight like mad to shut up that part of my brain and just let myself get lost in the story. And I think the fact that I'm at least aware of this shortcoming, and actually was able to shut up that part of my mind after a time, shows that I'm at least getting better.

However, I'm still not 100% sure exactly what I did like. I still usually tune out the fight scenes, for instance, since I already know before the first blow is dealt who's gonna win.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#34852: May 25th 2015 at 8:11:56 PM

Have you, like, never read or watched or played anything fictional?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#34853: May 25th 2015 at 8:17:31 PM

That is a very...peculiar way of looking at things.

edited 25th May '15 8:17:49 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#34854: May 25th 2015 at 8:20:37 PM

[up][up]Nothing I've played has anything other than an Excuse Plot; I can't remember the last time I read anything other than Redwall, and that was nearly 10 years ago now; and it's only been in the past couple years that I attempted to watch stuff for the sake of enjoyment and not "because it's a thing that exists and might be watchable".

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#34855: May 25th 2015 at 8:21:47 PM

So... what do you do?

Like, do you just live in a place where entertainment media isn't accessible?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34856: May 25th 2015 at 8:23:44 PM

As I recall, Redwall requires a lot of suspension of disbelief.

I mean, maybe if the founders of Redwall hadn't spent so much time hiding riddles in the foundation and the roof of the building, they would have remembered to document their history better.

edited 25th May '15 8:23:49 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#34857: May 25th 2015 at 8:26:46 PM

[up][up]I grew up most of my life in a bubble away from fictional works. My mom never instilled that in me, as she has no attention span and will fall asleep the second you plop her in front of a TV or movie screen, and I just never tried to burst the bubble until way too recently.

I just plowed through the first few Redwall books without even thinking about anything in them. I just read them automatically because hey, a friend likes this, so I must too.

I do know that I like bright shiny sci-fi visuals and humor, both of which this movie had. I'm just poking around confusedly until I find anything that has anything that I like, because I have so little direction.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#34858: May 25th 2015 at 8:53:48 PM

I can sorta understand what you're talking about. I adore action films and humor because my monkey brain enjoys violence and jokes, but try to make me watch/read something dramatic, emotional, or artsy and I'll be thinking "Why should I care whether this fictional character finds meaning in their fictional life/gets the fictional girl/reconciles with his fictional father? I'm here for a spectacle, not mundane drama about things that I can't empathize with because they don't really exist".

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#34859: May 25th 2015 at 8:59:07 PM

[up]It's the other way around for me. The spectacle is the part that I feel least engaged in. I can at least enjoy the non-spectacle after the fact.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34860: May 25th 2015 at 10:23:37 PM

I always like the middle ground. Meaning, movies which are only about the spectacle and the action bore me. I need more than that. At the same time though, movies which way pretentious about the meaning of live annoy me.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#34861: May 26th 2015 at 5:55:02 AM

only he can pick up that hammer? That's so impractical!

That whole "only someone worthy can hold the hammer" thing is some kind of curse Odin put on it in the first Thor movie to prevent Thor from abusing his power. If anyone could hold such a powerful hammer, what would be stopping some villain or whoever from grabbing it and going on a murder spree or something?

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#34862: May 26th 2015 at 5:56:12 AM

Yeah it's the exact opposite of impractical since it means the hammer literally cannot be used for bad reasons. Which not only prevents other people from using, it also keeps Thor himself in check.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#34863: May 26th 2015 at 6:21:26 AM

Mind you, this is a Norse god definition of worthy. If it had been the Greeks you probably couldn't lift it until you'd fucked every available hole in the vicinity, preferably with some shapeshifting involved.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34864: May 26th 2015 at 6:43:06 AM

The Norse god definition of worthy is someone hanging himself in a tree for days while slowly bleeding out but still being stubborn enough to survive and not give up after an hour. As a reward you get magic, knowledge of runes and secrets.

The Norse hero definition of worthy is someone being able to draw a sword out of a tree that was left there by the gods as a test. As a reward you get a sword.

edited 26th May '15 6:44:50 AM by LordofLore

Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#34865: May 26th 2015 at 7:20:47 AM

Yeah it's the exact opposite of impractical since it means the hammer literally cannot be used for bad reasons. Which not only prevents other people from using, it also keeps Thor himself in check.

And see, that's the thing. Seeing the character in action, and processing what I've seen after the fact, I get why that makes perfect sense in-universe. But my mind still goes right to "totally impractical, don't believe it for a second" and it takes me a while to get it to STOP thinking that.

Also, I am the least badass person in the world, and I know absolutely zero badasses myself, so badassery may remain a foreign concept to me for a time.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#34866: May 26th 2015 at 7:35:59 AM

You should watch some post modern stuff. You'd really like it; post modern takes it as explicit that it's all fiction and actors and scripts and writers and a television screen. You don't need to suspend your disbelief because the media it self doesn't.

Though, starting out with post modern just seems so backwards to me.

@Thor In the mythology he once almost drank the entire ocean dry and almost murdered time itself to prove himself worthy. I think the moral of that story was 'Thor is awesome.'

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34868: May 26th 2015 at 7:47:56 AM

[up]That's a great explanation for the suit.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34869: May 26th 2015 at 7:49:13 AM

Suspension of disbelief can be overrated.

I mean, yes, you need a certain amount for a given film, but there is a lot of fun to be had from approaching works from angles not covered in the text or contemplating the things left unexplained.

For instance, how does the Vision fly? Well, if you accept the premise we're shown onscreen in which he can phase his body through solid matter, who's to say it has to be solid? What if he's not actually flying? He's phasing his body through the air.

Well, okay, but how does he do that? Why can he phase his body through matter? That one's trickier, because they didn't even try to explain it or even tell the audience that's a thing he can do. He just starts doing it. If you don't read the comics, you might have no idea what's going on when he's phasing into drones and ripping them apart on a molecular level.

Who decides who is Worthy? Well, Odin probably does. It's his enchantment; he put it there in the Thor film as a Test of Character for Thor. Stark wasn't wrong in calling out the Hammer on its definition of Worthy; the correct interpretation is, "Whosoever Odin thinks is a cool enough dude." It's clearly not a conscious decision, the Hammer doesn't have to send applications to Odin for his approval, but he enchanted it with his interpretation of what constitutes Worthiness, and because he's never removed the enchantment, that rule is still coded in the hammer.

Things like that are loads of fun to contemplate and discuss, and they thrive on not simply accepting what happens onscreen, but in asking why, how, and what happened next? Why do Ultron's goals and objectives seem to change from scene to scene? How did Thanos know Ultron existed? Why was he disappointed in Ultron's failure? What happened to that city in Africa after Iron Man finished bringing down the Hulk, how many people died in the wake of that incident, and how will those deaths affect Banner's future both internally and externally?

Any story, no matter how good, is brimming with unanswered questions, and there can be a lot of fun in finding answers.

edited 26th May '15 7:50:47 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#34870: May 26th 2015 at 7:59:44 AM

[up]and I don't know how to do that because I'm so busy trying to figure out the basics still.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34871: May 26th 2015 at 8:00:54 AM

You shouldn't fret over your inability to enjoy something. These things come with time, and you admitted you went most of your life without it so trying to like it will be hard.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34872: May 26th 2015 at 8:16:27 AM

May I take the opportunity to mention that Vision has a really cool design? They deliberately went into the uncanny valley but in a way that he looks not weird but otherworldly. You notice immediately that there is something off about him because he just doesn't move naturally.

Which was also a very smart movie, btw. Because animating this cape in a way that the movement looks real would have been a b.... But since it is established from the get go that he is different, it looks totally natural.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34873: May 26th 2015 at 8:32:58 AM

I love his cape. Specifically, I like that he doesn't create it immediately. He makes his outfit when he's staring at himself, but it's only after glancing at Thor that he's like, "That cape looks so cool. I want to have a cool cape too."

It's a subtle but humanizing moment.

edited 26th May '15 8:33:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#34874: May 26th 2015 at 8:38:13 AM

I thought Vision was easily one of the best parts of the movie, but he wasn't in it nearly enough. I really hope he plays a bigger part in Infinity War, seeing as he has an Infinity Stone in his head and all.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34875: May 26th 2015 at 8:43:10 AM

I hope he plays any role in Infinity War that isn't being brutally murdered by Thanos to complete the Infinity Gauntlet.

edited 26th May '15 8:43:41 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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