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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#34751: May 24th 2015 at 11:22:49 AM

Hmm, Okay. I don't personally consider using a duplicate(clone, alternate universe or timeline counterpart) the same as resurrecting the actual character, so I guess we can only agree to disagree here.

I'd say it depends on how permanently the character is brought back? If it's only for a short "what if" type of story, like that Flashpoint miniseries where the robber killed Bruce Wayne instead of Thomas and Martha, and Thomas then became Batman, I wouldn't call it a proper revival. But if an alternate universe version gets an ongoing series of her own, or permanently joins the team her dead counterpart belonged to, to me that is pretty much the same as resurrecting a dead character. They writers are just trying to circumvent Death Is Cheap, so it wouldn't feel like the effect of a dramatic character death is diminished.

edited 24th May '15 11:24:32 AM by Tuomas

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#34752: May 24th 2015 at 11:24:15 AM

I put forth a revised version of the old saying as "No one stays dead in comics unless it makes Spider-Man unhappy." in a thread on this very issue.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34753: May 24th 2015 at 11:25:44 AM

I wonder if we could weaponize that

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#34754: May 24th 2015 at 11:26:29 AM

If the dead Mockingbird was actually a Skrull, yet Mockingbird's ghost appeared, I think the answer is obvious; the ghost was the Skrull.

So the Skrull was such a good sleeper agent that even in the afterlife she kept Mockingbird's human body and personality? Man, that's devotion to your job!

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34755: May 24th 2015 at 11:29:48 AM

I'd say it depends on how permanently the character is brought back? If it's only for a short "what if" type of story, like that Flashpoint miniseries where the robber killed Bruce Wayne instead of Thomas and Martha, and Thomas then became Batman, I wouldn't call it a proper revival. But if an alternate universe version gets an ongoing series of her own, or permanently joins the team her dead counterpart belonged to, to me that is pretty much the same as resurrecting a dead character. They writers are just trying to circumvent Death Is Cheap, so it wouldn't feel like the effect of a dramatic character death is diminished.

Yeah, that's a better way to explain it.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34756: May 24th 2015 at 11:38:31 AM

Gwen technically never came back to life. There was a clone of her and an alternate reality version, but the actual character stayed dead.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34757: May 24th 2015 at 11:38:51 AM

There was a really great moment in Amazing Spider-Man #500 by JMS where Peter saves pretty much everything on his own birthday by reliving key moments in his own life(like trying a different way to save Gwen since he knows the first one doesn't work, beating Electro and Sandman the same way he did the first time they fought etc)to get to a certain moment in time where he can tell a bunch of heroes to wait for Doctor Strange to show up before making a mistake that unleashes Dormammu.

At the end of the day his good friend Strange gives him a small trinket he found in his cloak and departs. The trinket opens and tells Peter "You have 5 minutes. Spend them as you will."

He shows up.

IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#34758: May 24th 2015 at 11:45:56 AM

Two ways to permanently die in comics:

1) Die in the process of someone becoming a superhero

2) Die to make Spider-Man sad

Anything else, people can and will come back from.

edited 24th May '15 11:46:15 AM by IronScope

This place is careless.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#34759: May 24th 2015 at 12:15:01 PM

Aunt May died. see how that turned out.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#34760: May 24th 2015 at 12:18:14 PM

To be fair, a character known as Phoenix can be expected to be hard to put down.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34761: May 24th 2015 at 12:22:55 PM

http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/05/24/frank-grillo-wraps-captain-america-civil-war-shoot

Grillo is done shooting his role in Civil War already apprently (or so he says on Instagram)

That's sad as I would of assumed he had a bigger part in the movie (unless he turns up filming in other countries later) as it seems his role was reduced to size Of Batroc or Von Stucker's

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#34762: May 24th 2015 at 1:18:48 PM

[up][up][up]Spider-man is more sad when she is alive than when she is dead so that doesn't count.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#34763: May 24th 2015 at 2:22:55 PM

[up][up]Honestly, it's getting kind of annoying to see everywhere reporting him as just "done shooting" when everything he's said is just bye to Atlanta. Meaning he could easily turn up again when they shoot elsewhere.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34764: May 24th 2015 at 2:27:36 PM

[up]Yeah, I agree. I really doubt that the whole movie is set in Atlanta.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#34765: May 24th 2015 at 2:28:42 PM

It isn't. At the very least, they're also filming in Puerto Rico and Berlin.

So it'd be really nice if the people writing these articles would stop taking his words out of context and extrapolating that he's all done with the whole movie.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#34767: May 24th 2015 at 3:00:13 PM

[up][up][up]

I think Atlanta and the surrounding area is going to be a stand-in for a couple different locations, potentially with none of them actually being Atlanta. Because of favorable tax laws, a lot of movies will shoot in Atlanta even if they aren't technically set there to save money. Marvel can afford to do a lot of international shooting, but even they aren't going to go out to Africa if the only scene set there is a 2-minute scene to help establish Black Panther.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34768: May 24th 2015 at 3:09:27 PM

[up]Yup. It also helps that like Cleveland, there's isn't a lot of instantly recognizable architecture, so you can easily sub it in for any number of big American cities.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34769: May 24th 2015 at 3:25:21 PM

[up][up]I assumed as much. The shots in Berlin might no be in Berlin either, after all Berlin is also the location of the Filmstudios. I doubt that they will many shots in the city itself. Too much hassle.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#34770: May 24th 2015 at 3:45:19 PM

[up][up]Not instantly recognizable to the general public. Locals will spend the movie going "I work in that building!" "That's where I went to lunch in college!" It's really cool.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34771: May 24th 2015 at 3:48:11 PM

[up]We did the same thing when the Dark Knight came out. Chicago went wild, LOL.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34772: May 24th 2015 at 3:48:47 PM

"Our economy's based on The Avengers!"

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#34773: May 24th 2015 at 4:14:40 PM

And they didn't need to do any special effects for when Loki destroyed the city. wink

(Note, I went to college in Cleveland and don't think it deserved its rep)

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#34774: May 24th 2015 at 5:23:08 PM

Two ways to permanently die in comics:

1) Die in the process of someone becoming a superhero

2) Die to make Spider-Man sad

3) Be a B-lister or lower, or a supporting character in general. Even if you're a major character, or an important supporter. As long as you're not super iconic (or your death doesn't make you super-iconic) you can die permanently.

Seriously, characters die for good in comics all the time as long as they're not the biggest names. Though the constant resurrection of A-Listers and the Discard and Draw-esque manner in which supporting characters and characters who are popular-but-not-as-popular-as-others are killed are related.

edited 24th May '15 5:24:23 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34775: May 24th 2015 at 7:11:16 PM

I take this to mean that Skrull Mockingbird was a true Great Lakes Avenger through and through. Or she really liked playing cards.
So the Skrull was such a good sleeper agent that even in the afterlife she kept Mockingbird's human body and personality? Man, that's devotion to your job!

In Secret Invasion, it was established that the Skrulls underwent brainwashing meant to make them truly believe they were the heroes they had kidnapped and replaced, which is why they were able to infiltrate the superhero community for years without someone like Charles Xavier or Emma Frost ever noticing they were impostors.

They never addressed the ghost Mockingbird from the X-Statix mini, but I'd assumed the implication was that the impostor who kidnapped and replaced her went on believing she was the real deal even after her death.

...Which is actually kind of sad, if you think about it.

edited 24th May '15 7:11:31 PM by comicwriter


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