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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34726: May 24th 2015 at 2:12:27 AM

I suddenly realized something about Marvel's slate...they are really clever about it, aren't they? They basically alternate the "big" properties with a "lesser" ones. This year we get "Age of Ultron" and "Ant man". Next year it is "Civil War" and "Dr. Strange". Then we got "Got G" and "Thor" (and I think it is quite notable that it would have been originally the other way around, but Got G was such a success that they decided to change the date) and finally what originally was supposed to be Black Panther but is now Spider-man. After that it is back to the "big" property Infinity War I, followed by two new ones and then Infinity War 2.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34727: May 24th 2015 at 2:25:15 AM

That's what's sometimes called "Event Based Storytelling". It's been in the comics for decades. Marvel usually had 1 event per year which they could build up to in the different books but nowadays there are more and more events closer together. A book like Loki: Agent Of Asgard can have maybe 3 or 4 issues before it has to take part in another event nowadays.

zam Since: Jun, 2009
#34728: May 24th 2015 at 6:45:46 AM

Which imo has diminishing returns.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#34729: May 24th 2015 at 7:41:06 AM

So yesterday I watched The Dark World and The Winter Soldier. Overall I liked them both.

I don't remember much of the first Thor, but in Dark World I noticed I really like Jane Foster as a character. She's funny and cool. I think that's the reason I never had as big of an issue with Jane and Thor's romance being a big part of the movies; I really like them both a lot, and I like seeing them talk and do stuff together.

And Loki still holds a solid place as second favorite Marvel villain, after Ultron. Lots of great Loki moments in that movie.

Winter Soldier has not only doubled my pre-existing desire for a Black Widow movie, but has also created my desire for a Falcon movie. Sam Wilson is great and I adore the Falcon suit.

And if you ignore the whole "let's make a really interesting and dynamic discussion of freedom vs. security and then make one side literal fascist dictators," I do think the story was pretty good.

I have a question, though: is Bucky Barnes being the Winter Soldier a thing in the comics?

"We're home, Chewie."
JRPictures Since: Nov, 2010
#34730: May 24th 2015 at 7:42:53 AM

I have a question, though: is Bucky Barnes being the Winter Soldier a thing in the comics?
Yep.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34731: May 24th 2015 at 8:15:50 AM

Bucky shows up as a brainwashed secret weapon/agent for the old Russia that's been found in stasis by a ex-russian general. The general has him kill the Red Skull(who transfers his mind into the general's body using a Cosmic Cube to survive as pretty much a split personality and then fights Steve and a bunch of stuff happens.

Bucky is one of the people who trained Nat in the comics since he's been in and out of stasis a bunch of times as part of his backstory as the Winter Soldier. He and Nat were a pretty popular pairing for a while.

He was also the guy who took up the shield after Cap died in Civil War.

In the comics Bucky's "death" was him flying off on a missile trying to get it to explode in the air IIRC.

Edit: Yep pretty much that.

edited 24th May '15 8:20:48 AM by LordofLore

Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#34732: May 24th 2015 at 9:05:43 AM

The Winter Soldier being revealed as Bucky was a huge twist in the comics, because he had been dead for decades (both in real time and comic book time), and one of the unwritten rules of the Marvel universe used to be that any dead character can (and often does) come back to life, except Uncle Ben and Bucky. I'm not sure how big twist his identity was supposed to be in the movie? (Obviously the twist was already spoiled for comic book readers like me the moment they announced the sequel would be called The Winter Soldier.) Given that they revealed it immediately in the movie following Bucky's death (not decades later, like in the comics), and that Bucky died under ambiguous circumstances, and that The Winter Soldier featured a mysterious masked assassin with brown hair, I guess even those viewers not familiar with the comics could've guessed who the guy behind the mask was?

edited 24th May '15 9:08:13 AM by Tuomas

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34733: May 24th 2015 at 9:28:44 AM

[up]Nope. Simply because Bucky died years back I was totally unprepared for the revelation. And I can't tell you how happy I am that I managed to avoid eventual spoilers well enough to be still surprised by it.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34734: May 24th 2015 at 9:43:36 AM

[up][up]The other thing that made it shocking was that Bucky was DEFINITELY dead in the comics. There was an Avengers story where Steve, Clint, T'Challa and Hank went back in time to WW 2 to see if he could've survived, and upon witnessing the actual explosion (which the audience thankfully didn't see) came to the conclusion that he was definitely killed instantly and that there was no way he survived what they saw.

And then another story had his spirit briefly resurrected by a bad guy who assembled a bunch of dead heroes to fight the Avengers.

So he was deader than disco before they came up with the retcon that he'd somehow survived and been rescued by the Russians.

edited 24th May '15 9:44:11 AM by comicwriter

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#34735: May 24th 2015 at 9:45:52 AM

[up] Actually, Earth's Mightiest Heroes had a pretty good explanation for that when they did the Winter Soldier arc: in an earlier arc, everyone was trying to get ahold of the Cosmic Cube and finally, Captain America picked it up. And, unconsciously, it granted his biggest wish: it brought Bucky back to life.

Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#34736: May 24th 2015 at 9:49:21 AM

[up]Being definitely, absolutely, for certain dead hasn't stopped Marvel from resurrecting characters though... I mean, after Captain America "died", his ghost appeared to Thor, but later on it was revealed he was never dead to begin with. And I think Mockingbird's ghost appeared in at least two different stories after her death, until we found out the person who died was actually a Skrull impersonating her. In both of those cases, I don't think it's ever been explained who those ghosts were supposed to have been, since Cap and Mockingbird were alive the whole time.

Basically, I think the main reasons why no one at Marvel had thought of resurrecting Bucky in the decades after her death, were that, A) he provided a similar kind of motivational tragedy for Cap that Uncle Ben did for Spidey, and, B) he represented the sort of a character archetype (kid sidekick) Marvel wasn't particularly fond of, at least compared to DC.

edited 24th May '15 9:55:47 AM by Tuomas

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34737: May 24th 2015 at 9:56:57 AM

[up]It doesn't, but at the time most of the reversed deaths in comics tended to be Disney Deaths. The way the Avengers talked, they made it sound like they'd seen some deep fried Bucky chunks flying out over the ocean after the explosion.

WRT the ghost thing, they ran into the same problem with the Wasp too. There was a really good Hercules arc where he and Amadeus Cho when to the Greek Underworld, and there was a brief moment where they met Wasp's spirit despite her not being dead.

[up][up]Yeah, I liked the way EMH handled it.

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#34738: May 24th 2015 at 10:06:25 AM

Unless of course she really was dead and actually happened to win at slots.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#34739: May 24th 2015 at 10:21:59 AM

Yeah, that Hercules thing was just a funny bit where "dead" characters play slot machines in order to win and get resurrected.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34740: May 24th 2015 at 11:03:53 AM

one of the unwritten rules of the Marvel universe used to be that any dead character can (and often does) come back to life, except Uncle Ben and Bucky.

Nobody stays dead in comics except for Gwen Stacy, Jason Todd, and Bucky Barnes.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34741: May 24th 2015 at 11:05:06 AM

616(Main Universe) Gwen Stacy is still dead. You linked to an alternate universe Gwen.

zsax Since: Mar, 2015
#34742: May 24th 2015 at 11:06:33 AM

Paraphrasing Charles Xavier: In Comic Book heaven there are no pearly gates, but instead revolving doors.

edited 24th May '15 11:09:48 AM by zsax

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34743: May 24th 2015 at 11:07:21 AM

Introducing alternate universe versions of characters is one of the classic methods of resurrecting a character. For instance, Nightcrawler was replaced by the Age of Apocalypse Nightcrawler for a while before being officially revived.

Spider-Gwen was introduced during the Spider-Verse event, got her own ongoing in her universe, and now is back to play in the major events again in Secret Wars.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuomas Since: Mar, 2010
#34744: May 24th 2015 at 11:13:46 AM

I think Uncle Ben remains the one major superhero comic character who's never been brought back in any shape or form, not even as an alternate universe version? Of course it helps that he's a Death by Origin Story type of character who's also not a superhero, so reviving him wouldn't really serve any narrative purpose, plus it would totally derail Spidey's hero motivation.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#34745: May 24th 2015 at 11:15:31 AM

Didn't Spider-Verse have an Uncle Ben Spider-Man? If Spider-Gwen counts as a revival then that should count for Uncle Ben.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34746: May 24th 2015 at 11:15:51 AM

Hmm, Okay. I don't personally consider using a duplicate(clone, alternate universe or timeline counterpart) the same as resurrecting the actual character, so I guess we can only agree to disagree here.

edited 24th May '15 11:18:58 AM by VeryMelon

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#34747: May 24th 2015 at 11:17:51 AM

If the dead Mockingbird was actually a Skrull, yet Mockingbird's ghost appeared, I think the answer is obvious; the ghost was the Skrull.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#34748: May 24th 2015 at 11:18:29 AM

Narrative purpose. Heroic motivation. The guy sold his soul to Satan. Fie on narrative and heroism.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34749: May 24th 2015 at 11:19:56 AM

Mockingbird showed up in the special purgatory for Great Lakes Avengers members.

I take this to mean that Skrull Mockingbird was a true Great Lakes Avenger through and through. Or she really liked playing cards.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34750: May 24th 2015 at 11:21:00 AM

So far, Uncle Ben Spider-Man has done the courtesy of staying to the event he was relevant for. Spider-Gwen, however, isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Another example: Jean Grey, the definitive resurrection queen. Seriously, even her tombstone reads "She will rise again." Since her death, in addition to multiple resurrections, she's been cloned, she's been replaced by an alternate universe Replacement Goldfish in the form of her Bad Future daughter, Rachel. Then she was reincarnated as Hope Summers, thereby preventing any further resurrections. And then after that, Jean and the other four founding X-Men were brought as a teenager into the present by Beast.

Resurrection isn't always as simple as "X was dead. Now they aren't." There are a lot of tools in a writer's toolbox to put a dead character back into the story without officially reviving them.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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