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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34476: May 19th 2015 at 8:18:50 AM

Peter was totally a fraud. Fraud is a deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. To prove fraud, two things would need to be proven:

  • Did Parker knowingly withhold information about the identity of the subject presented in his photos?
  • Had this information not been withheld, would Jameson have refused the business arrangement that he and Parker agreed to?

If Parker deliberately withheld information regarding the business arrangement between himself and Jameson that he knew would result in Jameson's refusal of said arrangement, then it is, by definition, an act of fraud.

The first point is easily provable by the fact that Peter is the subject of the photos and did not disclose this information. As to the latter, Jameson's opinion of Spider-Man is thoroughly documented, and I mean that literally. In-universe, there are years of literal documentation on Jameson's deranged crusade.

edited 19th May '15 8:22:14 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#34477: May 19th 2015 at 8:24:27 AM

[up]If that is the definition of fraud than he is a fraud, yes. My bad.

I was talking about the photos themselves. He did fraud some of them (and paid the price for it, if I remember correctly), but most of them are genuine, so it is not fair to say his entire career was fraudulent. In that sense, anyway.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34478: May 19th 2015 at 8:25:08 AM

I can buy it as fraud.

edited 19th May '15 8:25:16 AM by VeryMelon

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34479: May 19th 2015 at 8:27:01 AM

And now Cindy Moon has joined the grand tradition of Spider-Fraud.

Although, she is an unpaid intern so its a little better?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#34480: May 19th 2015 at 8:28:08 AM

Spider-Fraud! Spider-Fraud! Does whatever a spider could!

I know you have to mangle the pronunciation for it to work but whatever

edited 19th May '15 8:28:17 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34481: May 19th 2015 at 8:28:38 AM

Even with the photos that were genuine, he frequently lied about his methods. "How did you get these shots? How do you keep doing this? How do you always know where to be?" These are questions Peter was asked frequently, and the answers he gave were always deliberate lies.

What it boils down to is this: the law does not approve of Secret Identities in general. It approves even less of the measures Peter went to protect his, but what really brings it to the realm of criminal act is his decision to profit from those measures.

Even if journalistic integrity wasn't as big a deal as it is, money changing hands can often make the difference between a white lie and a criminal misrepresentation.

edited 19th May '15 8:29:21 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#34482: May 19th 2015 at 8:30:44 AM

[up]I never disputed Peter was being dishonest. I just had misunderstanding over the definition of fraud.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#34483: May 19th 2015 at 8:34:36 AM

The way he treated Peter is likely the way he would treat Peter if he was really his son.

Except Jameson actually has a son who I'm pretty sure he treats way better than Peter.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34484: May 19th 2015 at 8:35:37 AM

Note that the Bugle actually sued Peter over it. If OMD hadn't reset everything Peter would've lost since he didn't have Tony's lawyers or any money after Civil War.

Pratt talked about his contract.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#34485: May 19th 2015 at 8:36:50 AM

Shouldn't there be some kind of mitigating circumstances under the fact that Jameson was using those fraudulently obtained pictures to commit libel?

In fact, couldn't Peter counter-sue against him for defamation of character, and have a really good case considering that it was Jameson's blatantly untrue publications that caused Spider-Man to become an outlaw in the first place, cutting off numerous other means of employment?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#34486: May 19th 2015 at 8:42:37 AM

@Tobias Drake: I wouldn't say Peter is a great Superhero. He's a good one, but he's got enough issues that, IMO, hold him back from greatness, with a big one being that he has no clue how to balance his Superhero&personal lives, and this prevents him being great at either.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34487: May 19th 2015 at 8:44:59 AM

As an aside, this is why his stint as a science teacher was his best job.

He was still secretly being Spider-Man, but it wasn't relevant to his career like it was at the Bugle and Horizon Labs - the latter because he became publicly known as "the guy who makes Spider-Man's equipment."

[up][up] Peter's case would be undercut by the fact that he helped Jameson commit libel. His involvement in the defamation of his own character makes it stop being defamation of character. If anything, that's just more fuel for the fraudulent fire, since he contributed to journalism he knew to be untruthful.

edited 19th May '15 8:47:29 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#34488: May 19th 2015 at 9:06:18 AM

Well, since everyone is posting so damn fast right now

"The Nazis were a long time ago. They're still popular as an Acceptable Target for a mindless evil Army of Doom, but so far as serious representation as characters, I thought we were past that."

Its because the nazi pretty much build themselves in evil tropes: evil and badass suit? a simbol they put everywhere? a ideology about how to be a prick to anyone? ocult organization(so they can sue black magic)or trying to create super weapons? let face it, hitler create the closer thing to a evil legion of doom you can get

But yeah, HYDRA left the whole nazi buisness and they are a good world-conquering organization

" Mephisto is a cosmic power and the cosmic powers have decided "Screw Peter Parker in particular."

If a thing, if you call yourself a cosmic power but havent crap in peter parker life them you are a hack, a least we know the first thing Thanos is going to do now....

"she began writing nasty letters to J. Jonah Jameson for slandering that poor, heroic Spider-Man."

Jeez, that is harsh as hell, awsome may is awsome

"Ultimate Jameson handled the truth way more gracefully."

Really? I want to ask, how the comic handle Jameson? the only time I remenber was the 90 series which it gives him some reason(his wife dies by a masked robber) so if there is any reason he hate spiderman apart from being a general asshole?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#34490: May 19th 2015 at 9:07:23 AM

Really? No one knows what my issue is with the casting of Pietro and Wanda? Man, and I thought I'd earned a reputation around here.
Hey, I said I agreed with you after I realized you weren't ragging on Scarjo.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#34492: May 19th 2015 at 9:33:48 AM

I just wanted to say...The person who said Honduras and Argentina aren't in the same continent is wrong. America is the continent made up of the two landmasses. That's the spanish interpretation.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34493: May 19th 2015 at 9:42:40 AM

Depending on the Writer, Jameson either hates masks or superheroics in general. He wants to see the law enforced by accountable officers of law.

Either way, he's got a huge, throbbing mad-on for Spider-Man.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34494: May 19th 2015 at 9:44:16 AM

I don't agree with the assessment that if Jameson pays for photos of Spider-man Peter is somehow required to reveal how he made them. As long as Spider-man is actually the subject of the picture and he doesn't stage crimes for the sake of an article, Jameson gets exactly what he wanted. It would be different if Peter were writing the articles himself, but he didn't. He just sold the pictures.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34495: May 19th 2015 at 9:45:13 AM

Spider-Man did sue Jameson for libel in I thiiiink a She-Hulk comic. (It is the same one where Spider-Man claims JJJ hates him because he's black). It was going well until Jennifer decided to extend the suit to Peter Parker.

So Peter changed the asked damages from 'lots of money' to 'hand out retractions in chicken outfits'

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34496: May 19th 2015 at 9:50:01 AM

A photographer is under the same obligations of journalist integrity as the actual writer.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34497: May 19th 2015 at 9:56:31 AM

America is the continent made up of the two landmasses. That's the spanish interpretation.

I grew up in a Spanish-speaking family. They still viewed South America as a different continent. Most every map tells you that. But it's just interpretation. The point was that the two countries are too far away for the "Argentina Is Nazi-Land" stereotype to be shared.

edited 19th May '15 9:56:55 AM by Tuckerscreator

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34498: May 19th 2015 at 9:59:41 AM

[up][up],[up]That's true, though in the She-Hulk one, most of the staff got off when they showed that it was either print libel about Spider-Man or get fired. It was mainly Peter who got the hard end because his photos are sold freelance and he isn't mandated to print solely for the Daily Bugle. Hence why he dropped the case.

Makes me wonder why Peter doesn't try working for a different newspaper.

edited 19th May '15 10:00:52 AM by Tuckerscreator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34499: May 19th 2015 at 9:59:53 AM

[up][up][up]So what, if I happen to make a photo and sell it to the press I am considered a journalist? That is a really grey area. As far as I know Peter was always just a free-lancer, not an employee. (And honestly, I never got why he even sells his prime-photos to the daily bugle and not to a newspaper which would pay better and not smear his name in the process).

edited 19th May '15 10:01:15 AM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34500: May 19th 2015 at 10:00:53 AM

Well what Peter does is morally dubious, but superheroes in general have a history of breaking the law or doing very suspect things and then telling the reader we're supposed to ignore it because they're the good guys.


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