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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#34401: May 18th 2015 at 10:10:33 AM

Theoretically they could get away with a Bangladeshi American actress, or even an Indian American actress because Urdu and Hindi are basically the same language, although the latter probably isn't wise for political reasons.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34402: May 18th 2015 at 10:16:38 AM

Honestly, I thought we were over the whole "Evil German" thing until Amazing Spider-Man 2 made me realize that's still a stereotype people are willing to embrace with open arms.

The Nazis were a long time ago. They're still popular as an Acceptable Target for a mindless evil Army of Doom, but so far as serious representation as characters, I thought we were past that.

edited 18th May '15 10:17:50 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#34403: May 18th 2015 at 10:19:03 AM

[up] Did you see Baron von Strucker? He was totes an evil German Hydra/Nazi guy.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34404: May 18th 2015 at 10:27:55 AM

Yeah, but Hydra gets a pass for being derived from actual Nazis. In the show, Skye even called out a character for it.

  • Skye: All this time, everything we've been through why? How could you?
  • Grant Ward: I was on a mission. It wasn't personal.
  • Skye: "It was - " you did not just say that. "It wasn't personal"?
  • Grant Ward: Skye, listen to me...
  • Skye: God, you might actually believe that. That - that is the twisted logic that they teach you when you sign up to be a Nazi.
  • Grant Ward: Stop. Wait. I'm not a Nazi.
  • Skye: Yes, you are. That is exactly what you are. It's in the S.H.I.E.L.D. handbook, chapter one. The Red Skull, founder of Hydra, was a big, fat, freaking Nazi.
  • Grant Ward: That has nothing to do with today.
  • Skye: You know, you always had that Hitler Youth look to you. So it's really not that surprising.

edited 18th May '15 10:28:36 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34405: May 18th 2015 at 10:27:59 AM

[up][up]Well, I give Marvel some credit for saying that Zola wasn't German but Swiss. And for putting one line in "The First Avenger" to clarify that Germans are not necessarily all Nazis. Which makes the whole thing more a Nazi than a German stereotype. I can life with that. They can turn as many Nazis into Banksys as they want as long as they don't fall into the "All Germans are Nazis" trap.

[up]That is actually an idea which really should die in the American media, because membership in the Hitler Youth was mandatory at one point. Making it as a shortcut in a "this guy was in the Hitler Youth, so he is evil" way is wrong on so many levels. The Scholl-siblings for example were also members, and died fighting the regime.

edited 18th May '15 10:30:54 AM by Swanpride

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#34406: May 18th 2015 at 10:44:58 AM

I just want to point out that Hydra seems to have stopped being a Nazi organization by the time they resurface. They're still fascist but the Aryan master race stuff is gone.

edited 18th May '15 10:45:14 AM by Kostya

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34407: May 18th 2015 at 10:45:29 AM

I took it more as "This guy was in the Hitler Youth, so he was indoctrinated from an early age with Hitler Values."

[up] I don't know, I've yet to see a black guy in Hydra.

edited 18th May '15 10:46:19 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#34408: May 18th 2015 at 10:47:09 AM

I think one of the people Ward met with in the season 2 finale was black.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#34409: May 18th 2015 at 10:48:05 AM

I think at least one of the HYDRA!SHIELD members in Winter Soldier was black as well.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34410: May 18th 2015 at 10:49:55 AM

Several. And Sitwell was Honduran-American.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#34411: May 18th 2015 at 10:51:13 AM

Well...

edited 18th May '15 10:52:00 AM by Hodor2

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34412: May 18th 2015 at 10:51:23 AM

It's worth noting that in the comics HYDRA explicitly does NOT have racist hiring policies and they accept anyone they can take as long as they are able to serve.

Strucker makes a point of saying how clearly the idea of Aryan superiority didn't work out too well in the past, so there's no reason to not accept candidates who happen to be of non-white racial groups.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#34413: May 18th 2015 at 10:58:12 AM

There's also Wanda and Pietro who were Jewish in the comics.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#34414: May 18th 2015 at 11:05:02 AM

Were, until they got re-retconned into not being Jewish due to not being Magneto's kids anymore.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#34415: May 18th 2015 at 11:10:23 AM

Wait, seriously?

They couldn't just leave them Jewish? Do all Jewish characters have to be related to Magneto somehow?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#34416: May 18th 2015 at 11:18:24 AM

[up]The only reason they were Jewish in the first place was because they were related to Magneto. They were always Roma first and foremost, which they continued to be. Even when they thought Magneto was their father, I don't think they ever gave their Jewish hereditary much of a thought.

(also, I am cynical to whether this change is meant to stay in the first place)

At any rate, they are still Roma in the comics and are presumably Roma in the movie as well. Scarlet Witch's actress even explicitly called the character gypsy at last once (and apologized for the term latter, I believe).

PS:There are multiple Jewish characters in the comics who are not related to Magneto. Kitty Pryde, Sabra and The Thing are the ones who spring to my mind immediately. But I know there are multiple others as well.

edited 18th May '15 11:20:57 AM by Heatth

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#34417: May 18th 2015 at 11:19:30 AM

I had no idea this was a stereotype, and I consider myself a connoisseur of Argentine stereotypes.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#34418: May 18th 2015 at 11:20:28 AM

Magneto used his powers to suck the Jewishness out of them once they were no longer his kids.

You'd be surprised at how much stuff he can manipulate via magnetism.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34419: May 18th 2015 at 11:21:47 AM

The comic twins are now 100% romani since their changed origin now isn't "Magneto's wife gets scared of him one day and runs away, she ends up in the High Evolutionary's area, one of his subjects(a cow) takes care of her until the twins are born after which the wife leaves her children, cow takes them to the master who gives them to a wandering couple of romani who'd lost their own kids since he doesn't want to raise babies and judges the couple as a good family for the kids" into "High Evolutionary takes the twins from a romani couple(why?), experiments on them(aside from that being his thing, why?) and then sends them back to the couple(why doesn't he wait to see if his experiments worked? He didn't abandon Warlock for months so why would he abandon 2 experiments so soon?)".

Edit:[nja]

edited 18th May '15 12:32:50 PM by LordofLore

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34420: May 18th 2015 at 11:22:45 AM

Honduras and Argentina aren't even on the same continent.

edited 18th May '15 11:24:48 AM by Tuckerscreator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34421: May 18th 2015 at 11:30:02 AM

Yeah I get why so many people (especially Jewish ones) were upset about the retcon and their portrayal in AOU, but they were NEVER practicing Jews and they only found out they had a Jewish father when they were well into adulthood. So it was never a huge part of their identity.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34422: May 18th 2015 at 11:57:36 AM

[up][up][up] You do make the newest origin sound more streamlined.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#34423: May 18th 2015 at 11:59:27 AM

Plenty of Romani died in the Holocaust too so it would still be problematic. Of course like I said Hydra doesn't seem to be a Nazi organization amymore.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34424: May 18th 2015 at 12:17:55 PM

[up][up]The new origin for the twins and direction for HE pretty much eliminated one of the few good qualities of him(that he could actually care and listen to his subjects)so I'm still kind of mad. Why would he actually kill his old experiments that are loyal to him(among them the cow woman who delivered the twins in the old origin)?

edited 18th May '15 12:25:14 PM by LordofLore

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#34425: May 18th 2015 at 1:13:53 PM

[up]The High Evolutionary was always a dick. I mean, didn't he try to kill off all his New Men?


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