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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#34176: May 15th 2015 at 12:43:32 PM

NOOOOOOO sad

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#34177: May 15th 2015 at 12:47:14 PM

[up][up] I'm fine with Peggy dying as long as it's simply due to old age. Because of how unbelievably badass does someone have to be in a world as crazy as the MCU while in Peggy's line of work to die of old age.

edited 15th May '15 12:48:39 PM by Falrinn

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34178: May 15th 2015 at 12:49:47 PM

[up]Full agreement. Plus, she is nearly hundred. It would look odd if she would manage to fight one last time, and it would look pathetic if a villain bothered to kill her.

edited 15th May '15 12:51:10 PM by Swanpride

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#34179: May 15th 2015 at 12:50:45 PM

[up][up]That's true.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#34181: May 15th 2015 at 1:04:14 PM

You know, the whole "non romance, more buddys!" is getting a little out of hand because of the black widow thing here

"In short, use the relationships and characterizations that already exist and expand upon them, rather than trying to create a romance out of nothing."

really? bruce is the one who she can related the most since he feel his power are a curse instead of a duty(cap) or a ego boost(tony).

Also, who close Banner and Tony really are? they look like science collgies at best, even more considering how Tony treat the whole Hulk thing, I dont see Bruce been really close with Steve or Tony

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PurpleDalek Since: Sep, 2011
#34182: May 15th 2015 at 1:08:14 PM

Peggy's, like, 97 or 98 years old in the modern day. She had a good run.

On a slightly related note, does anyone else find the old age effects they used on Hayley Atwell in Winter Soldier unconvincing? Old age effects, whether practical or digital, just never look right to me.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#34183: May 15th 2015 at 1:19:11 PM

[up][up]

And Widow doesn't even have powers. The show decided to try to give them a relationship based on her regrets about her past, but that's not an intuitive connect, and then they didn't even show her any of what she did as an assassin.

Bruce had a strong pre-existing relationship with Tony, as the only one who wasn't discomfited by him in The Avengers; that relationship built throughout the first movie and was why the Hulk saved Tony after he fell back through the portal. They've been working with each other for a while, and Tony (who isn't usually open with people about his feelings) chose Bruce as the person he wanted to talk to after the events of Iron Man 3. Bruce trusted Tony enough to help him design the Hulkbuster armour. They both created Ultron; they both made a serious mistake, and they both had reasons, after that, to view themselves as dangers to others. There's a lot to make out of that, if the show had chosen to go in that direction.

In contrast, the only prior times Widow had interacted with Bruce, their interactions revolved around her being terrified of the Hulk. She did have a good relationship with Cap, due to the events of Captain America The Winter Soldier, so that could have been developed further (in a non-romantic way).

edited 15th May '15 1:23:38 PM by Galadriel

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34184: May 15th 2015 at 1:20:17 PM

[up][up][up]Did you read the article I linked? Because I honestly don't want to repeat all my thoughts on it.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34185: May 15th 2015 at 1:42:22 PM

[up][up]They looked more convincing to me than most old makeup. There's a picture out there of when they first tried doing makeup for Peggy, and it didn't look very realistic.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#34187: May 15th 2015 at 2:33:05 PM

"And Widow doesn't even have powers. The show decided to try to give them a relationship based on her regrets about her past, but that's not an intuitive connect, and then they didn't even show her any of what she did as an assassin."

indeed I sask something similar about wha loki means about her past but I think is a way to kept the empathy on her, Is quit hard to feel sorry for a unrepent killer.

but the connexion of the two is the they kind of regreat their hability and the cost the paid for get it, Hulk is a ramping brute and Natasha was a tykebomb, they are the only ones who didnt choice their path so they have a bond unlike any other

"There's a lot to make out of that, if the show had chosen to go in that direction."

Again is true but that only mean tony and bruce hang on in the cientific level, no more, I dont think Bruce can trust enought about his Hulk issue in a emotional level considering that in avenger Tony dosent seen so worry about it

a least I can see why the whole Natasha-Bruce comes from, while I dont like is the way the conversation was done(I feel the comparation between hulking and her sterility very clumsy at best) and the whole "I have to go because I dont want to harm you" i dont know but if Natasha fined bruce anytime soon, she is going to kick him a little for that

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#34188: May 15th 2015 at 2:35:14 PM

So with the Falcon and Crossbones pics the Joblo report has basically been confirmed them? That's good. Most of those rumors sounded pretty good, such as the new Wasp.

[up] She looks like she's got CGI tracking dots on already.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#34189: May 15th 2015 at 2:37:11 PM

[up]What, you mean the fake script? No, the fake script is pretty much fake.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34190: May 15th 2015 at 2:38:37 PM

[up][up][up]It's not just the conversation. The romance felt to me like a tired rehash of the Bruce/Betty romance from The Incredible Hulk. I really feel that everything which can be said about Bruce and a normal love life has already been said in that movie, I really didn't need a repeat. But a side which hasn't been explored is him being a scientist who want to far in his research, and how he feels now that the Hulk is somewhat "useful". Ultron would have been the perfect opportunity to make him question his own ethics. But no, we got the same tired beats again I already hated in the The Incredible Hulk.

edited 15th May '15 2:38:46 PM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34191: May 15th 2015 at 2:47:19 PM

Actually the split in the relationship this time was because Natasha wanted to drag Bruce into fights and he wanted to run away.

It was much less about worrying that he would hurt her.

Although fear that he couldn't stop the Hulk from hurting people did factor into his decision to run away.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34192: May 15th 2015 at 2:48:04 PM

[up][up][up]No not the fake script. Before any of that Joblo had an article with some information (rosters mostly) and what some of the new costumes look like, which seems to have been confirmed by the set pics.

And as the poster mentioned they had some news about Wasp.

edited 15th May '15 2:48:17 PM by comicwriter

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#34193: May 15th 2015 at 2:48:15 PM

[up][up][up]that would make him Tony#2 since that is his plotline, while the battle against the hulk buster show that that other part of him can really do out of control(and given that two villians have already use him, he have a point).

In fact I was pretty mad that Wanda was forgiven so easy after she mess with their minds(which star out the whole damn plot to being with) when Bruce tell her how angry he was, it was like "wow, she make bruce angry? that is fuck out" I was expecting a little bit of payback butit didnt happen, what a shame

[up][up]really? I remenber him saying about no controling hulk but I dont remenber that part

edited 15th May '15 2:49:42 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#34194: May 15th 2015 at 2:54:27 PM

[up]x5 I mean this:

http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/exclusive-spoilery-mcu-details-on-civil-war-doctor-strange-ant-man-more-227

It's pretty old (before AOU came out), and naturally, grain of salt, etc., but all the stuff about Cap, Falcon, and Crossbones' costumes have been confirmed, and all the other they've mentioned about Civil War sounds promising and stuff fans have been hoping for.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34195: May 15th 2015 at 3:00:36 PM

RE: Old Peggy makeup

I actually meant this picture. It's decent but you can tell that it's just a surface layer, as opposed to the face changing shape and thinning over the years.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34196: May 15th 2015 at 3:02:03 PM

[up][up][up]It wouldn't, because Bruce is a very different character. And to be honest, he should know better. He already created the Hulk because he took unreasonable risks, but a little bit peer pressure and he first creates Ultron and then Vision.

edited 15th May '15 3:04:47 PM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34197: May 15th 2015 at 3:03:05 PM

He helped create Vision and the Hulkbuster though so that's something

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#34198: May 15th 2015 at 3:07:44 PM

I didn't know Bruce helped make the Hulkbuster, that's rad. Did they say that explicitly in the movie and I just missed it?

"We're home, Chewie."
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#34199: May 15th 2015 at 3:08:38 PM

Bruce points it out to Tony at one point, I think.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34200: May 15th 2015 at 3:23:06 PM

In contrast, the only prior times Widow had interacted with Bruce, their interactions revolved around her being terrified of the Hulk. She did have a good relationship with Cap, due to the events of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, so that could have been developed further (in a non-romantic way).

Which is exactly why it couldn't have been anyone but her.

Bruce could never have had with Tony the kind of relationship he had with Widow, even if you remove the romance element. Here's the thing: Tony doesn't respect the Hulk. Tony jabbed Bruce with a pokey thing to try and induce a Hulk transformation in the middle of the Helicarrier, then went on and on about how he felt Bruce would eventually come around to "suiting up with the rest of us."

Tony thinks the Hulk is awesome and it is because of that opinion that he could never understand or respect how much Bruce resents having to become the Hulk. He's very accepting of Bruce which is probably refreshing in its own way, but he doesn't empathize with the fact that Bruce desperately wants to not be the Hulk. As a consequence, Tony couldn't be the guy who calms the Hulk or helps Bruce feel better about his Hulk incidents.

Widow, on the other hand, was terrified of the Hulk. She was as afraid of it as Bruce was, and that's something Bruce needed; especially with his increasing activity with the Avengers to the point of actually having a word for when the Hulk is needed to smash bunkers and tear people in half, Bruce desperately needed someone who could go, "Yeah, that shit sucked, the Hulk is a force of horror and destruction and not at all super-cool."

If Tony had pushed Banner into that hole, it wouldn't be a betrayal. He'd just be Tony being Tony. Whoops, we need the Hulk, sorry Banner. Even Cap and Thor would just be making a practical decision based on the needs of the situation. A betrayal could only come from someone who resented and feared the Hulk as much as Banner did, and there's only one person on the team that fits that bill.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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