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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#34151: May 15th 2015 at 10:15:05 AM

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch origins only changed like, last month or so. It is a very recent thing. The deal between Marvel and Fox is much older than that. That is definitively not why that deal was possible.

The thing is, the twins are unique is that they are closely related to the Avengers and'' to the X Men and have been so for decades. They debuted in the X Men #4 and continued to make appearances in the book frequently over the years. Quicksilver even became an official member of a few X Men spin-offs. At the same time, however, they joined the Avengers in issue 16 and become regular characters of the team since then. They are as much Avengers as Hawkeye is.

Due the shared universe, most characters crossed over to other books at last once, sometimes even joining different teams temporary. But few characters are so connected to two different franchises so throughly as these two.

[up]Yeah, giving telepathy to Wanda made her really similar to Jean. Have her ever done something similar in the comics? I mean, making the "hex" telekinesis make sense as a way to simplify her powers (Wanda often used them to just move shit around anyway), but the telepathy was really out there.

edited 15th May '15 10:17:02 AM by Heatth

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#34152: May 15th 2015 at 10:22:01 AM

By the way, how do you actually pronounce Jean Grey? Because I've been mentally pronouncing it like jeen (like "blue jeans") but I suspect that's wrong.

"We're home, Chewie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34153: May 15th 2015 at 10:22:46 AM

It's simple the "associated characters" clause. That one is really, really vague. But I go out on a limb and suspect that all characters which are usually listed as "avengers" belong to Marvel, no matter of they are mutants or not, and all the mutants which belong to the X-men belong to Fox. The twins are, as far as I remember, the only ones which fall in the middle of it, because they belong to both groups.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34154: May 15th 2015 at 10:23:51 AM

[up][up]No, you're correct. It's pronounced jeen.

[up][up][up]Yeah. The new origin in the comics and having them get powers from the Infinity Stones in the movie were the result of Marvel getting to use them in the films, not the cause.

edited 15th May '15 10:25:09 AM by comicwriter

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34156: May 15th 2015 at 10:35:23 AM

Okay, I have now published my article about Black Widow and by extension, Age of Ultron. That might be a better way to get an idea what I mean about the different layers in the movie. If you are interested, you can find it here:

https://swanpride.wordpress.com/2015/05/15/marvellous-and-dcent-black-widow/

It's the last article (for now) in a series I wrote since the beginning of the year.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34158: May 15th 2015 at 10:43:01 AM

Excellent. After his role in Winter Soldier, I was really hoping he'd be coming back and not just wind up a loose end drifting forever in plot limbo like what happened to Red Skull and the Leader.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#34159: May 15th 2015 at 10:45:31 AM

I'm guessing the things on his arms are going to be the explanation for how he can beat Cap/Iron Man/T'Challa/whoever he ends up facing. He's a normal man under that costume as shown in WS.

I can never recall correctly if 616!Crossbones is a super soldier or just a normal dude with guns and a skull mask.

edited 15th May '15 10:51:07 AM by LordofLore

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34160: May 15th 2015 at 10:48:36 AM

Cap and T'Challa don't need an excuse to lose against a Badass Normal. Cap's enhanced, sure, but he's not exactly Thor or the Hulk.

Cap straddles the line. He could reasonably win a fight against heavyweights like Iron Man or Thor with great demonstration of tactical prowess and skill. He could also reasonably lose a fight against regular badasses like Hawkeye or Widow with great demonstration of tactical prowess and skill on their part. If Crossbones puts in an impressive show of it, he doesn't need an excuse for beating Cap; he just needs a good day.

edited 15th May '15 10:49:24 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#34161: May 15th 2015 at 10:50:10 AM

Steve's beaten Rumlow before, while Rumlow had two of those zappy sticks. And that was right after beating ten other guys.

edited 15th May '15 10:51:00 AM by Tuckerscreator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34162: May 15th 2015 at 10:51:38 AM

His downfall will be wearing all that heavy black armor during Summer in Africa (Well, Georgia but you get my point). The poor actor must be dying under all that.

edited 15th May '15 10:51:52 AM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34163: May 15th 2015 at 10:52:01 AM

Losing a fight does not prohibit someone from coming back harder to win the same fight later.

Protagonists do that all the time.

EDIT: Also, circumstances change. That elevator ambush seemed like a good idea at the time, but it wasn't. They engaged a guy with super-strength in enclosed confines where they had to be careful not to hit each other in the mob while he just had to wail on everything in grappling range until they stopped moving.

The elevator played to Cap's strengths more than it did the mob's. It was like trying to bring down the Hulk by having 20 guys dogpile on top of him and then dropping a cage on them so none of them can get breathing room. That's not a fight, that's a blender.

Grappling is a poor method of attack against Captain America, is the point.

edited 15th May '15 10:56:05 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#34164: May 15th 2015 at 10:55:29 AM

[up][up]Yeah. And it is all black too. You don't wear all black outfits in the sun. It will kill you.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34165: May 15th 2015 at 11:00:24 AM

Also of note, when they fought in the elevator/blender, Rumlow and his men were trying to take Cap alive.

This time, he's going to be trying to kill him, and that's much easier. He won't be fighting with a handicap.

edited 15th May '15 11:01:39 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34166: May 15th 2015 at 11:07:56 AM

[up][up]HYDRA don't give a damn about heatstroke.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#34167: May 15th 2015 at 11:25:13 AM

Yeah, you can't DeHYDRAte HYDRA!

edited 15th May '15 11:25:24 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#34168: May 15th 2015 at 11:40:31 AM

Interestingly (or not so I guess) so far it looks like most of the set pics are around the returning characters from the last film, not the Avengers. So I'm wondering how big a role they play.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#34170: May 15th 2015 at 12:26:15 PM

The armor on Crossbones is a little bit much. I was expecting him to wear the balaclava to hide his burns, and the armor is a little too like Batman's suit in TDKR/Batman v. Superman. Falcon looks great though.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34171: May 15th 2015 at 12:27:42 PM

Is it just me or did they make Falcon's colours a little bit more American with the bluish suit, the red highlights and the "nearly looking like white" silver?

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#34172: May 15th 2015 at 12:31:42 PM

Swanpride - I agree with a lot of what you said in your review.

I think Age Of Ultron could have been a lot better if it hadn't gone the conventional direction with having a romance. Skip romances entirely. Have Bruce's strongest relationship be with Tony, as it was in The Avengers, thus keeping the characters consistent, and have Tony be the one who can calm down the Hulk; that adds more drama and feeling to their fight in South Africa when Wanda's affected Bruce's mind so Tony can't get through to him.

Have the focus on Black Widow continue to be about her dealing with her past as an assassin and her guilt about some of the thing she did; have her Wanda-induced flasback show some of those things (assassinations of innocents). Show more of her relationship with Cap that we got in Winter Soldier, and also build relationships between her and Cap and the twins, since there are strong parallels between her and Wanda, who also makes some serious mistakes, has plenty of regrets, and gets a lot of people killed (including her brother). Have Black Widow, rather than Hawkeye, give the pep talk to Wanda during the final battle, because Black Widow can understand where she's coming from and what it's like to look back on your own actions and be horrified by them. As a result, at the end of the movie you get members of the new team (Cap, Widow, Scarlet Witch) already having a clear rapport that can be carried through to future movies.

In short, use the relationships and characterizations that already exist and expand upon them, rather than trying to create a romance out of nothing.

edited 15th May '15 12:32:22 PM by Galadriel

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34173: May 15th 2015 at 12:32:15 PM

I guess they want to emulate the fact that Falcon's traditional suit is more colorful, on top of making a shout out to Falcon being Captain America in the comics right now.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#34174: May 15th 2015 at 12:34:46 PM

[up][up]Above all I really feel that the betrayal would have been more powerful if it happened in the context of a team member betraying him, not a love interest. The whole thing really did neither character any favours Imho.

But other than that, I am actually very into the different layers of the movie. It pulls together Phase 2 in so many ways.

edited 15th May '15 12:34:57 PM by Swanpride

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#34175: May 15th 2015 at 12:37:08 PM

If Chris Evans is one of the pallbearers, then chances are yeah, this is Peggy's funeral. Edit: Also just noticed the flag on the coffin is almost certainly the Union Jack. Dammit sad

edited 15th May '15 12:40:20 PM by AlleyOop


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