Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
It's simple the "associated characters" clause. That one is really, really vague. But I go out on a limb and suspect that all characters which are usually listed as "avengers" belong to Marvel, no matter of they are mutants or not, and all the mutants which belong to the X-men belong to Fox. The twins are, as far as I remember, the only ones which fall in the middle of it, because they belong to both groups.
Okay, I have now published my article about Black Widow and by extension, Age of Ultron. That might be a better way to get an idea what I mean about the different layers in the movie. If you are interested, you can find it here:
https://swanpride.wordpress.com/2015/05/15/marvellous-and-dcent-black-widow/
It's the last article (for now) in a series I wrote since the beginning of the year.
Excellent. After his role in Winter Soldier, I was really hoping he'd be coming back and not just wind up a loose end drifting forever in plot limbo like what happened to Red Skull and the Leader.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'm guessing the things on his arms are going to be the explanation for how he can beat Cap/Iron Man/T'Challa/whoever he ends up facing. He's a normal man under that costume as shown in WS.
I can never recall correctly if 616!Crossbones is a super soldier or just a normal dude with guns and a skull mask.
edited 15th May '15 10:51:07 AM by LordofLore
Cap and T'Challa don't need an excuse to lose against a Badass Normal. Cap's enhanced, sure, but he's not exactly Thor or the Hulk.
Cap straddles the line. He could reasonably win a fight against heavyweights like Iron Man or Thor with great demonstration of tactical prowess and skill. He could also reasonably lose a fight against regular badasses like Hawkeye or Widow with great demonstration of tactical prowess and skill on their part. If Crossbones puts in an impressive show of it, he doesn't need an excuse for beating Cap; he just needs a good day.
edited 15th May '15 10:49:24 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Losing a fight does not prohibit someone from coming back harder to win the same fight later.
Protagonists do that all the time.
EDIT: Also, circumstances change. That elevator ambush seemed like a good idea at the time, but it wasn't. They engaged a guy with super-strength in enclosed confines where they had to be careful not to hit each other in the mob while he just had to wail on everything in grappling range until they stopped moving.
The elevator played to Cap's strengths more than it did the mob's. It was like trying to bring down the Hulk by having 20 guys dogpile on top of him and then dropping a cage on them so none of them can get breathing room. That's not a fight, that's a blender.
Grappling is a poor method of attack against Captain America, is the point.
edited 15th May '15 10:56:05 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Also of note, when they fought in the elevator/blender, Rumlow and his men were trying to take Cap alive.
This time, he's going to be trying to kill him, and that's much easier. He won't be fighting with a handicap.
edited 15th May '15 11:01:39 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Swanpride - I agree with a lot of what you said in your review.
I think Age Of Ultron could have been a lot better if it hadn't gone the conventional direction with having a romance. Skip romances entirely. Have Bruce's strongest relationship be with Tony, as it was in The Avengers, thus keeping the characters consistent, and have Tony be the one who can calm down the Hulk; that adds more drama and feeling to their fight in South Africa when Wanda's affected Bruce's mind so Tony can't get through to him.
Have the focus on Black Widow continue to be about her dealing with her past as an assassin and her guilt about some of the thing she did; have her Wanda-induced flasback show some of those things (assassinations of innocents). Show more of her relationship with Cap that we got in Winter Soldier, and also build relationships between her and Cap and the twins, since there are strong parallels between her and Wanda, who also makes some serious mistakes, has plenty of regrets, and gets a lot of people killed (including her brother). Have Black Widow, rather than Hawkeye, give the pep talk to Wanda during the final battle, because Black Widow can understand where she's coming from and what it's like to look back on your own actions and be horrified by them. As a result, at the end of the movie you get members of the new team (Cap, Widow, Scarlet Witch) already having a clear rapport that can be carried through to future movies.
In short, use the relationships and characterizations that already exist and expand upon them, rather than trying to create a romance out of nothing.
edited 15th May '15 12:32:22 PM by Galadriel
![]()
Above all I really feel that the betrayal would have been more powerful if it happened in the context of a team member betraying him, not a love interest. The whole thing really did neither character any favours Imho.
But other than that, I am actually very into the different layers of the movie. It pulls together Phase 2 in so many ways.
edited 15th May '15 12:34:57 PM by Swanpride

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch origins only changed like, last month or so. It is a very recent thing. The deal between Marvel and Fox is much older than that. That is definitively not why that deal was possible.
The thing is, the twins are unique is that they are closely related to the Avengers and'' to the X Men and have been so for decades. They debuted in the X Men #4 and continued to make appearances in the book frequently over the years. Quicksilver even became an official member of a few X Men spin-offs. At the same time, however, they joined the Avengers in issue 16 and become regular characters of the team since then. They are as much Avengers as Hawkeye is.
Due the shared universe, most characters crossed over to other books at last once, sometimes even joining different teams temporary. But few characters are so connected to two different franchises so throughly as these two.
edited 15th May '15 10:17:02 AM by Heatth