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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33851: May 12th 2015 at 8:31:08 PM

So do you guys think Klaue is going to be the sole Big Bad of Black Panther, or might there be another villain to complicate things?

Also, Sound Monster. Yay or nay? tongue

edited 12th May '15 8:32:32 PM by KnownUnknown

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33852: May 12th 2015 at 8:33:55 PM

I hope not. I hope the film deals as much with the internal politics and struggles of being a king. Would be a nice way to diversify the MCU Genre Roulette in terms of subject matter as well.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#33853: May 12th 2015 at 8:38:30 PM

Random thought I had before that I just remembered:

So, one reason I'm iffy about the Black Widow sterilization thing (besides the various reasons much discussed) is that it seems kind of unnecessary.

I mean it is a quite good way to further dehumanize the "recruits" (in addition to the practical benefit of avoiding pregnancy), but I feel like it sort of cheapens things, because Agent Carter and the flashes of the Red Room in AOU present a pretty good picture of how the process works (no sterilization necessary):

With the Black Widow of Agent Carter, I'm reminded of this line from The First Law that goes something like "First you see it done to others; then it's done to you; then you do it to others''- basically, the only way to survive the Red Room is through being a killer, and the end process, as seen through the highly unstable Black Widow of the show is to create someone who has no identity of their own and whose only freedom comes through pretending and killing people.

And it says everything about the process that after being handcuffed to a bed throughout her time there, she can't sleep unless she handcuffs herself at night. It's interesting that the character seems to know on some level that they have been victimized by their employer, but since her life was stolen from her, she finds refuge in enjoying the work.

That's so disturbing already that there's really no need for the sterilization. Anyone who came out of this process will already have a lot of issues.

edited 12th May '15 8:40:05 PM by Hodor2

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#33854: May 12th 2015 at 8:41:18 PM

The sterilization is probably more of a pragmatic thing. They don't want their elite spies seducing men and then getting pregnant.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33855: May 12th 2015 at 8:46:13 PM

[up][up][up] By that do you mean Sound Monster or Klaue being the only villain?

edited 12th May '15 8:46:29 PM by KnownUnknown

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#33856: May 12th 2015 at 8:46:21 PM

The Red Room flashbacks in Agent Carter showed the recruits when they were ten. Way too early to sterilize any of them, hence a Watsonian reason for why it wasn't shown.

edited 12th May '15 8:47:13 PM by Tuckerscreator

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#33857: May 12th 2015 at 8:50:23 PM

Yeah. I mean there's nothing to say that recruits weren't sterilized all along (and that's why it isn't mentioned in Agent Carter), but I'd tend to think that sterilization wouldn't have been necessary, as if a recruit did become pregnant, the child would be property of Glorious Mother Russia.

Still, the "problem" is that while probably not the intent, AOU makes it so that the Red Room boils down to "I was sterilized"/that comes off as the worst part of it, whereas I'd rank "being stripped of identity and forced to kill" much higher.

edited 12th May '15 8:52:12 PM by Hodor2

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33858: May 12th 2015 at 8:54:05 PM

I think you're right about that. I'm betting that at the time Widow was a part of it the Red Room was almost certainly run by HYDRA, who would have required its Agents stay as untraceable and remote as possible at all times in order to maintain the very long con they were setting up over the decades.

While not out in the open anything, Russia's Red Room was probably a bit more freelance and varied in terms of missions, and they might have been less rigid with things like children. Plus, there's whole archetypical Cold War "pretending to be in nuclear family / pretend to be in love with the enemy" movie spy thriller plot, which couldn't happen with a sterile agent. And if there's anything Agent Carter loves, it's spy thriller movie plots.

edited 12th May '15 8:56:42 PM by KnownUnknown

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#33859: May 12th 2015 at 9:06:27 PM

Which reminded me. It's "funny" how the combination of Agent Carter and Winter Soldier implies that Zola and Fenhoff/Faustus are responsible for every terrible HYDRA deed over the next 50 years, including (as you say) the Red Room.

Amusingly, like Wanda and Pietro, Fenhoff was a victim of Stark weaponry, but her Misplaced Retribution is nothing compared to his.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33860: May 12th 2015 at 9:16:09 PM

It's not an unreasonable assumption, but I don't remember them implying that Fenhoff went back to Russia, or that Leviathan got folded into HYDRA. HYDRA could've backed the USSR rather than necessarily being a part of them.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33861: May 12th 2015 at 9:39:40 PM

The season finale of Ao S was all kinds of awesome, btw.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#33862: May 12th 2015 at 9:41:13 PM

Hayley Atwell just watched Age of Ultron. She enjoyed it. Nobody recognized her. Those Clark Kent glasses really do work.

edited 12th May '15 9:41:25 PM by Tuckerscreator

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#33863: May 12th 2015 at 11:36:37 PM

Ava Duvernay as director of Black Panther or Captain Marvel? Hell yes.

By the way, Civil War might have a lot more powered people due to Terrigen fish oil.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33864: May 12th 2015 at 11:40:22 PM

By the way, Civil War might have a lot more powered people due to Terrigen fish oil.

Now, see, when you put it like that it sounds like a conspiracy theory.

"It's the fish oil corporations, man. They're the ones giving everybody superpowers. They're behind the Civil War!"

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33865: May 13th 2015 at 12:10:54 AM

Mind elaborating for those of us who don't watch or plan on watching AOS in the near future?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#33866: May 13th 2015 at 12:17:26 AM

Welp, okay:

Jiayang, Skye's mom and one of the leaders of the Inhumans, planned to put a bunch of Terrigen crystals (which had been mixed with Diviner metal, meaning they were lethal to humans) on a Quinjet — explicitly because they wanted to kill humans and create more Inhumans. But Skye, with her Quake powers, knocked the Quinjet off into the ocean. But the case full of Terrigen crystals was knocked open, the mist floated up into a school of fish, the fish were caught by fishermen, and boom, fish oil.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#33867: May 13th 2015 at 1:22:19 AM

Finally had time to organise a bit my thoughts about Age Of Ultron. I should watch it again this week-end with my brother and cousin so I'll see how my opinion evolves.

First, I found that the Natasha/Bruce romance was fairly uninvasive to the story. Actually the thing that I liked the less about it was that Hulk now needs external help to turn back into Banner. It kind contradicts how both personalities were shown to get along better at the end of Avengers 1. Also, I'd have liked Hulk to have at least a one-liner this time as well.

The farm scenes did not bother me much, apart from the fact that I considered them a clear foreshadowing that Clint was not going to make it to the credits (later enforced by the Fatal Family Photo). Given that it turned out to be a complete red herring, I can only praise the misdirection.

My biggest gripe about the movie is that a lot happens, and some of it with very little introduction. Compare for instance how the "worthy to lift the hammer" plot is introduced, or the references to Veronica that are made before "she" appears, to how Tony introduces the Ultron program ("hey look, I can finally create the Ultron program that was never hinted about"). Then there is the way Von Strucker is killed offscreen as an afterthought, or even the resolution ( "Ok I can't blast this thing or make it fall or anything, so I will blast it and Thor will also blast it and it works"). It's one of those movies where I could actually feel that some scenes had been cut or reduced, and this says something, as I'm usually fairly blind to these kind of things.

I also failed to have a nerdgasm during this movie - Avengers 1 gave me one when the helicarrier took off the water. Although Wanda getting badass came close, but I think I have a thing for superpowered cute little females. OK this looks much creepier than it was in my head actually

So basically I'll have to wait for the extended edition to form a definite opinion on the subject. As it is now, it's an enjoyable action movie, but with a rather jumbled, and at time rushed, plot.

And I'm still petitioning for having Extremis!Pepper show up in an Avengers movies grin (I know the chances of that are slimmer than those of a She-Hulk solo movie).note 

edited 13th May '15 1:25:33 AM by C105

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#33868: May 13th 2015 at 5:43:07 AM

Actually the thing that I liked the less about it was that Hulk now needs external help to turn back into Banner. It kind contradicts how both personalities were shown to get along better at the end of Avengers 1.

It might be (and this might just be me interpreting it wrong, and this might be contradicted by that final scene with the Hulk) that the Hulk can turn back by himself, but it takes longer than using the lullaby. Lots of times he was walking around after a battle frustratedly, kinda making me think of someone who's super-angry but trying his hardest to calm down.

Also hey, is anyone else disappointed that the lullaby doesn't involve Natasha singing in Russian? That would've been cool.

"We're home, Chewie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33869: May 13th 2015 at 6:40:46 AM

Depends on how well SJ can sing....

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#33870: May 13th 2015 at 6:48:39 AM

That would have at least allowed me to joke once again about Disney's agenda of turning each of their movie into musicals tongue.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33871: May 13th 2015 at 8:05:22 AM

[up][up][up] That.

He can stomp around until he manages to cool off enough to revert, but a soothing influence is more effective and a hell of a lot faster. I can empathize with that; I've wrestled with anger issues, and it's a lot easier to let the rage go when I can lay my head in my BFF's lap and have her scritch my ear and neck. It's a gentle reminder that there is beauty in the world.

With Banner, the hard part is that his rage is much more destructive and powerful, which is why Widow does it from a distance. It doesn't have to be a romantic gesture, but it does have to be someone you trust - which, itself, works to establish how far Banner and Widow have come since they made their peace with each other in the climax of the Avengers film.

edited 13th May '15 8:06:02 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#33872: May 13th 2015 at 8:06:09 AM

Whedon being Whedon meant all the character death foreshadowing really backfired. I mean there was no way someone wasn't going to die in a Whedon film but hinting THAT heavily as to who it was? Yeah, he was safe, right there.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#33873: May 13th 2015 at 8:37:06 AM

how Tony introduces the Ultron program ("hey look, I can finally create the Ultron program that was never hinted about")

It's a pity that at the time of filming Iron Man 3, they didn't know whether RDJ was going to stay for more films, because if they knew we could of had the post credits scene in Iron Man 3 have Tony, after the whole 'therapy' joke, show Bruce his idea of the Ultron program.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33874: May 13th 2015 at 8:38:57 AM

[up]They did know that he would be in the Avengers, didn't they?

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#33875: May 13th 2015 at 8:39:19 AM

Something that just struck me about S2!Agent Carter: It will take place in LA. What do I remember about LA from the comics this and last year in LA: Kate Bishop moves away there to get away from Clint Barton and his rotten luck. Once there she runs into a conspiracy by Count Nefaria and his daughter, Madame Masque(who is the main bad guy), that's been going on for decades. I wonder what our chances of seeing Nefaria are...

edited 13th May '15 8:43:35 AM by LordofLore


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