TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#33301: May 9th 2015 at 10:07:49 PM

Down here we consider Ashkenazi to be white. They are paler than most of us. And are the only substantial Jew population in town and so on.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33302: May 9th 2015 at 10:08:43 PM

[up][up][up]Yes, Everett and General Ross are not related, just Names The Same.

edited 9th May '15 10:08:51 PM by AlleyOop

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#33303: May 9th 2015 at 11:25:13 PM

Somehow, this thread didn't get re-added to my watchlist after I saw the movie last week.

Miss anything?

edited 9th May '15 11:25:24 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33304: May 9th 2015 at 11:27:03 PM

Race talk.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#33305: May 9th 2015 at 11:32:59 PM

Right, saw that on the last page. I haven't looked further back, though.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#33306: May 10th 2015 at 12:09:34 AM

[up]X3 The circular "Who should we Race Lift now?" conversation that happens every ten pages.

Though the discussion about native American vision has got me wondering. I know that a Native American Captain America would go hilariously wrong somehow... (Not counting 1602)

I'm curious exactly how though. Marvel would mean well then something would go hideously wrong and then Steve would come back. But what exactly would it be...

Anyway I wonder if Danny Rand was made Asian or some other Race would the joke from the comic where everyone mistakes Hawkeye for Iron Fist still be funny?

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33307: May 10th 2015 at 2:09:31 AM

Didn't we have the discussion already over in one of the TV show topics? Oh well, I didn't change my opinion: I wouldn't mind changing Iron Fist's heritage as long as they change it into anything BUT Asian.

On a totally different note: What if the Beyonder is Peter Quill's father? It would beg the question why he would need Yondu to fetch his son, but he certainly is very ancient.

edited 10th May '15 6:48:29 AM by Swanpride

GeekCodeRed Since: Sep, 2010
#33308: May 10th 2015 at 7:11:12 AM

In one universe, Superman is black.

And Obama.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33309: May 10th 2015 at 7:37:38 AM

The whole point of Steve is that he has no own stakes in the game. He used to be the "outsider" because of his various illnesses, but in his current version he is practically the most privileged guy on earth, white, blond, blue-eyed, in peak condition and following the popular belief system of his time. Meaning he could lean back and enjoy what he has, but he doesn't want to, because fighting against what he perceives as bullies in important for him. The moment he does have a personal reason to do so, it undermines the very core of the character.
We've got waaaaaaay too many characters like this, though. "Superman is a white male who could rule us all but he'd rather defend us!" "Batman is super-rich and could do nothing but he chooses to fight crime!" "Iron Man is super-rich and could do nothing but he chooses to fight crime!" Like yeah, okay, Bats is doing it out of revenge and Tony out of guilt, but at the end of the day, "powerful white guys chose to do the right thing" is such a pervasive narrative that I can't see what damage changing Steve would do.

Especially since putting the whitest man in America in stars and stripes and having him symbolize, however indirectly, our ideals, just seems skeevier the longer that version of him lasts. Sure, you can fix that by swapping Steve out—and they are kinda doing that with the Falcon in the comics—but still.

There is one problem with making that explicit though. In the movie they evidently volunteered to be experimented on by Hydra. Before seeing the movie I figured they were taken against their will but that doesn't seem to be the case. Having two Jewish people willingly cooperate with a Neo-Nazi organization is a bit eyebrow raising.
I mentioned to a friend a while back how racist it was to make a character who casts hexes and warps people's minds Romani, and that if she was Romani in the film you could get that angle explicit in-universe—that of fucking course the Nazis took one look at this woman and decided to give her stereotypical "Gypsy" powers.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#33310: May 10th 2015 at 7:45:31 AM

I think in the context of the comics her being a Romani with stereotypical powers is a coincidence. The Twins were introduced long before that was a part of their character.

As for the film that still leaves the issue of them willingly working with Neo-Nazis. They would have to make it clear they don't know Hydra's history or something.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33311: May 10th 2015 at 7:52:09 AM

[up]Does it really matter when the comics decided she was Romani? It's still a super-stereotypical thing to do.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33312: May 10th 2015 at 7:57:17 AM

You mean that it could've been spun in-universe that it was racist, or that it is out of?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33313: May 10th 2015 at 7:58:51 AM

Er, both. Out-of-universe it's racist, but it could've been interesting if in-universe her powers are stereotypical because the folks experimenting to give them to her were themselves racist. Which could've meant the out-of-universe racism would've been negated somewhat in the films since it's being called out.

edited 10th May '15 7:59:21 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#33314: May 10th 2015 at 7:59:22 AM

...Is Evans a JoJo fan?

edited 10th May '15 7:59:53 AM by LordofLore

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#33315: May 10th 2015 at 8:00:17 AM

Why wouldn't it matter? It's not like they sat down and had it in mind that they had to pick powers that made sense for a Romani.

There are mutants with eyebrow raising nationality/ethnicity and power combinations that were designed that way from the start. The Twins aren't one of them in my opinion.

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#33316: May 10th 2015 at 8:00:52 AM

Good lord, this discussion again? How about we toss in Ben Grimm being Jewish and a Golem or that Cho kid being a super smart Asian to the "Lets say comics are horrible"'chant?

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33317: May 10th 2015 at 8:02:45 AM

[up][up]At some point someone sat down and looked at Scarlet Witch and decided her being a Romani made sense, though.

[up]You can like things and critique them at the same time. I dunno why this is a difficult concept.

Plus, Grimm isn't a golem by any definition.

edited 10th May '15 8:03:48 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33318: May 10th 2015 at 8:03:41 AM

Batman and Superman are both not Marvel, and also very different characters. Batman is motivated by revenge and is in a lot of ways a bully himself. And Superman is a Superpowered alien.

Steve is, at the end of the day, human. Peak human, but still human. He doesn't have an overly sad childhood or a relative which died, he doesn't feel guilty about anything, and he also doesn't hear the screams of the victims or fells their pain or anything like that, and he is also not the victims of some experiment which backfired. He walked into this willingly, the experiment did exactly what it was supposed to do and if he wanted, he could walk away. Honestly, how many Superheroes like this do we actually have? Those who were not born with their powers or got them by accident, but actually got exactly what they wanted and then proceed to do good with them?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33319: May 10th 2015 at 8:05:38 AM

BTW, I spend the last days reading up on the Avengers (and related characters) to figure out which characters I want to see at one point, and Amadeus Cho is actually pretty high up on the list. A character who has no special powers or gadgets but is simply crazy intelligent? Count me in!

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33320: May 10th 2015 at 8:05:57 AM

[up][up]I mean, he's also kinda terrified of not having battles to fight. He picks his target well, yeah, but by and large so does Batman. You can't honestly claim there's nothing selfish about what he does, at least in the MCU.

Also, see, this is kind of what I'm talking about. Even if he was a paragon of virtue, the fact that there's this perception that he can't possibly keep being that if he has even the slightest deviation from the norm is kinda gross.

edited 10th May '15 8:08:54 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33321: May 10th 2015 at 8:08:52 AM

Not a fan of having to tiptoe around races so much to avoid even the semblance of offensiveness. I mean, Wanda is a Reality Warper, are we seriously supposes to consider that offensive because of the stereotype of Romani curses?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33322: May 10th 2015 at 8:09:46 AM

[up]I mean, when she's one of a very small handful of Romani superheroes, yeah, I'd say that's pretty offensive and should maybe be dealt with.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33323: May 10th 2015 at 8:53:16 AM

[up][up][up]There is nothing gross about saying that it is questionable to make a change which goes against the very point of the character. Race is one thing. Story-telling another.

And really, why shouldn't Wanda be Roma? Roma are very diverse in itself. Depending on where they life, they follow different religions (usually but not always the main religion which surrounds them) and have different beliefs. The only thing they have in common is a strong emphasis on family, and some very specific ideas of being "clean". As long as she doesn't wear stereotypical clothing and speaks in the stereotypical manner, I don't see any problem with it, especially since the word "witch" is way more connected to Wicca religion than Romani. Having a non-stereotypical character belonging to an underrepresented group of people is a good thing in my book. Plus, if she is Roma, Quicksilver is too.

edited 10th May '15 8:54:14 AM by Swanpride

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33324: May 10th 2015 at 9:17:50 AM

Alright, so are all powers that could be construed as magic or curses or mysticism out of the picture for Romani characters?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33325: May 10th 2015 at 9:20:49 AM

I mean, the comics do explicitly use the word "hex", if I'm remembering correctly.

And I would say that yeah, generally, don't do that.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Total posts: 186,763
Top