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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#33226: May 9th 2015 at 12:57:05 PM

That article was about the comics, not the movies, so I don't see much relevance in discussing it here.

Unlike many people claim, the comics don't bend backyards to fit in with the movies. Hell, the new Avengers book seems to be doing the exact opposite. The new parentage is no indication to how the movies will deal with it(if at all).

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#33228: May 9th 2015 at 2:55:10 PM

Finally got to see Age of Ultron today (it's been out since April 22nd in my country, but various events conspired to prevent me from reaching a theater).

I'm kinda glad I did my best to avoid all information about the movie in the last months. It allowed me to be actually surprised about the deaths (especially since the movie does it best to make Hawkeye as a serious candidate for that). It was bad enough being able to identify each scenes of the trailers a few minutes before they actually occurred.

I don't know if we are still supposed to use spoilers, but I'm keeping them just in case

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#33229: May 9th 2015 at 3:01:23 PM

Saw Ultron recently. It was Marvel the movie. Which isn't a bad thing, but I've stopped being impressed by it.

Character screen-time was mostly distributed well, though I'm not a fan of Vision. He sort of got introduced awkwardly and then was just there. I liked his first scene, and his last speech with Ultron was good on paper, but other than that he was just sort of there. Definitely one of the consequences of this being so cramped.

The twins were mostly solid. Pietro was fine. Not as fun as his X-Men counterpart amusingly, but still fine. I liked Wanda a lot, though it's hard to put my finger on exactly why. Maybe I liked how she was subtly unstable. Pietro's death did surprise me, though it makes sense in retrospect. Wanda has more interesting places to go personally, and he'll be in X-Men, so I'm not too bummed. The way Wanda got off scot-free of causing half the major problems is weird though.

Natasha/Bruce was just weird. Like, why? It's not something that feels well built up, and I'm not entirely sure why it's there beyond giving Natasha an arc. I didn't quite hate it, but that whole subplot needed rewriting. The controversial scene didn't bug me though. It's existence was odd, but there's nothing to get angry about.

Tony was Tony. So that's good. Steve was Steve. Also good. Clint got his chance to shine, though he didn't steal the movie like I heard he did. A definite improvement over Avengers though.

Ultron never worked for me. I like him on paper, a robot who actually has emotions and snark, but it was hard to take him seriously as a big threat that will end the world. His robot army being even weaker than the Chiutari didn't help. Cap holding him off for so long didn't help his credibility. Ultron's plans and motives were inconsistent and never well-established. Granted this may have been intentional, but it felt more like the writers never got a firm idea on what they wanted to do with him and decided to throw everything in. Not horrible, but he's not going down as one of the MCU's greats.

Overall, this confirmed my problem with the MCU after I was meh on Guardians. Everything feels the same, even across genres. Spy film? Space opera? Epic crossover? They all hit the same beats. I get they have a working formula, but it leaves me unable to get excited over all the future films. Though I guess Disney doesn't care since I'll still be seeing future films. Certainly not a bad movie, but all I could think was that it was a Marvel movie unable to impress. Maybe Civil War will shake things up. Winter Soldier has me looking forward to that at least.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#33230: May 9th 2015 at 3:56:21 PM

If we could go back to the Catholic discussion for just a second, isn't Steve Rogers also Catholic? I think I remember seeing that somewhere, but I could be dead wrong about that.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#33231: May 9th 2015 at 4:04:07 PM

Steve is meant to represent the 1940s All-American WASP archetype. Making him Catholic would defeat the point.

edited 9th May '15 4:04:43 PM by Kostya

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33232: May 9th 2015 at 4:07:04 PM

What Catholic discussion? Must've missed that.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#33233: May 9th 2015 at 4:12:19 PM

People are discussing whether or not Matt Murdock being openly Catholic is a big deal or not.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#33234: May 9th 2015 at 4:16:47 PM

[up]x4 I don't know about comicbook Captain America, but the only hint towards MCU Captain America's religion is this exchange in the Avengers movie:

Black Widow: These people come from legend. They're basically gods.

Steve: There's only one God, ma'am, and I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that.

Which, while clearly making him a monotheist, doesn't really clarify much beyond that. Given his religious beliefs were never a point of consideration in the original Captain America movie, I think we could safely extend that to "some sort of Christian", but I wouldn't speculate any further.

[up] I wouldn't really consider it a big deal personally. It's an aspect of the character from the comics that there was no reason to change, so they didn't. Otherwise if there are some Catholics out there who enjoyed the Daredevil series a little more since it starred someone from their own faith, then I'm not going to say they are wrong to do so.

edited 9th May '15 4:20:46 PM by Falrinn

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33235: May 9th 2015 at 4:20:23 PM

Cap's parents are Irish which leans towards him being Catholic but I think in the comics he's a Protestant.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33236: May 9th 2015 at 4:25:54 PM

Insofar as you're kinda stuck with "the US government in the 1940s was never gonna turn a non-white guy into a living weapon", there's probably something interesting to be done in making Steve Jewish. I mean, it gives him a much more personal stake in the war, and firsthand experience with prejudice (so we can finally stop with the "Cap is an old-school conservative bigot" stuff that occasionally crops up in the comics).

Plus, Judiasm is matrilineal, so no one can really quibble with his surname. Blame that on his dad.

edited 9th May '15 4:26:31 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#33237: May 9th 2015 at 4:26:50 PM

Isn't it kind of cheap to give Steve a "personal" stake in the war other than "I must stop the bad guys because it's the right thing to do?" Why does he need to "avenge his people"?

My various fanfics.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33238: May 9th 2015 at 4:31:47 PM

Man, I phrased that poorly. I didn't mean it so much as an "avenge his people" type deal so much as, y'know, in hindsight—and I know what Simon and Kirby were going for, but still...

It feels weird, having this stereotypically Hitler-youth type guy being the hero of World War II in a fictional universe, y'know? And, I mean, were any of the Howling Commandos or anything Jewish? It seems kind of important we be involved.

But then, y'know, none of that era of hero are gay, or Romani, or anything, as far as I'm aware, so.

edited 9th May '15 4:32:11 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33239: May 9th 2015 at 4:33:00 PM

Yeah, I feel making Steve Jewish wouldn't be a step forward, really. Then again, I do like that Daredevil is Catholic, so I can't fault someone for wanting representation.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#33240: May 9th 2015 at 4:33:13 PM

Well, I think I read somewhere that it's implied Steve is a closeted bisexual. But, as we saw with Bobby Drake, bisexuality doesn't sell, so they'll just leave him straight.

My various fanfics.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33242: May 9th 2015 at 4:35:46 PM

Oh yeah, the thing about Iceman being mind-read by Jean Grey and told he's gay because bisexuals don't real?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#33243: May 9th 2015 at 4:36:12 PM

Apparently people just call themselves bisexual when they can't decide/don't want to admit.

My various fanfics.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33244: May 9th 2015 at 4:36:27 PM

[up][up]"They say everyone is bi," apparently.

I'd like to meet these people. And punch them.

edited 9th May '15 4:36:44 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33245: May 9th 2015 at 4:38:01 PM

Yup, that's just about the wrong way to go about LGBT representation.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#33246: May 9th 2015 at 4:38:57 PM

Brian Michael Bendis: Proving you shouldn't let him write anything but Ultimate Spider-Man since 2010.

My various fanfics.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33247: May 9th 2015 at 4:43:22 PM

Bisexuality only doesn't sell when it's on men rather than women.

Regarding implied bisexual Steve Rogers, I'm not sure if you're referring to the movies or the comic version, but if it's the latter, boy there sure is plenty of stuff to draw from without invoking Shipping Goggles.

edited 9th May '15 4:47:52 PM by AlleyOop

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#33248: May 9th 2015 at 5:05:11 PM

I'd argue that making Steve Jewish defeats the point of the character. He's supposed to be the ideal Aryan superhuman that Hitler and the Nazis desperately wanted to create. The only catch is he's dedicated himself to stopping them instead of furthering their cause. If he were Jewish he wouldn't be compatible with Hitler's vision of the Master Race which undermines that.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#33249: May 9th 2015 at 5:11:39 PM

For the record, Steve is usually portrayed as a archetypical American Protestant. And I enjoy the fact Daredevil's a catholic, not just because I'm a Catholic, but because (as I've mentioned) it adds some variety in philosophies to the MCU, as well as the fact I enjoy seeing multitudes of faiths portrayed and explored in fiction.

An interesting case is Wolverine who swings back and forth between being an atheist and a pseudo shinto buddhist.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#33250: May 9th 2015 at 5:22:33 PM

Mark Millar says Martin Freeman's role is not a superpowered character and not the Red Skull, and that when it's revealed everyone is gonna realize how obvious it was.


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