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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33201: May 9th 2015 at 7:12:03 AM

[up]x3 I'm not "bashing" anything.

I'm expressing why I, personally, disliked the show, and how I hope I'll be able to like the rest of the Netflix shows. If people are allowed to do the same for Iron Man 2 or Thor, I think that should be allowed.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33202: May 9th 2015 at 7:25:35 AM

[up]Oh, don't worry, I get what you mean. I am totally into the child version of Matt. I love this character. But I have trouble to root for the adult version for some reason. I think the only character I really love from this show is Claire. But I haven't given up yet. Sometimes it takes time for characters to click with me.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33203: May 9th 2015 at 7:26:45 AM

I can understand how someone might find Matt a bit banal. Hell, he's never been my favorite in the comics and I've rarely deliberately read a book with him in it. But the Netflix series goes a long way towards puncturing the character's ego. Unlike with certain heroes on the other side of the fence, Matt can't duck the question of whether he's doing the right things for the right reasons. Hell, he can't even keep from asking those things of himself. It's a nice contrast to the way other dark-and-gritty heroes are often given at best the "I did what I had to do" way out and at worst unquestioned moral absolutism.

Okay, fine. I'm talking about Batman.

There have been a few times where my roommate and I were like, "This show is a way better Batman."

That, very decisively, is one of the reasons. It really feels like it's knuckling down and exploring the problems inherent in vigilantism. Not just the typical "Should I kill?" "Resounding no!" "Okay." conflict, but how it impacts the vigilante's personal life and health, whether or not it accomplishes anything, etc. As a superhero Necessary Weasel, it's rare to see vigilantism put under that microscope. It's generally accepted that Hero Man is entirely justified when he puts on a mask to fight crime, and only good can come of it..

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33204: May 9th 2015 at 7:28:43 AM

[up]What kind of bothers me though...there is a whole episode in which Matt discusses if he should kill Fisk and how it might impact him. All great done. In the same episode he kills Japanese ninja guy (Nabu? Whatever), but that death is never addressed again. It undermines the whole theme.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#33205: May 9th 2015 at 7:44:43 AM

[up]Except in that case, Matt hadn't intended to kill Nobu from the get-go, and only did so as a last desperate resort at the very last minute, because otherwise, he was going to die. Whereas with Kingpin, Matt started that night out with the full intention of just ending him; even if he didn't actually succeed in doing so, there's a difference there.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#33206: May 9th 2015 at 8:04:32 AM

Quick second to go back to Daredevil being Catholic. Considering the only prominent Catholic characters I know of on TV are Daredevil and Detective Stabler, and they're both a bit willing to do enhanced interrogation (Stabler more punchy than knifey), not very progressive I don't think.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33207: May 9th 2015 at 8:06:45 AM

He still killed a man. Nobu was the first life he has ever taken, after spending his entire career up to this point refusing to cross that line. There should be a response. Instead, he goes right on insisting he's not a killer.

I think it's because the thing with Foggy happened immediately after. Matt never had time to dwell on what he'd just done. Beaten to shit as he was, he might not even realize he killed him.

I might be wrong, it might come up later; I haven't finished the series yet.

edited 9th May '15 8:09:16 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#33208: May 9th 2015 at 8:13:35 AM

Question: where do Jessica and Luke work out of in the comics?

edited 9th May '15 8:13:57 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#33209: May 9th 2015 at 8:20:41 AM

Depends on the point in their lives.

They lived in Avengers Tower when Luke was on the Avengers with Spider-Man(Peter, MJ and Aunt May all lived in the Tower also) before Civil War for example.

Jessica moved all over the US when working for people who wanted her to check out things outside NYC(her origin and the Purple Man are only revealed in the last story arc of the book btw but I think that story took place in NYC).

edited 9th May '15 8:21:35 AM by LordofLore

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#33210: May 9th 2015 at 8:32:01 AM

[up][up]Cage was traditionally from Harlem.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#33211: May 9th 2015 at 8:57:16 AM

Actually I'm fairly certain he didn't intend to kill Nobu. The way he tosses the stick hints he was aiming at Nobu, and by stroke of luck the thing went too high and struck a lamp, setting Nobu on fire. Alternatively he was aiming at the lamp, but his purpose was to kill the light of the enviroment so he could fight in the dark (giving him an advantage), not setting Nobu ablaze.

At least that's the way I saw it. He doesn't react to Nobu's death because he doesn't see it as being his fault. It's a bit like Goblin impaling himself when he fights Spider-Man. Theoretically Spidey is responsible because by getting himself out of the way, he put Goblin in the sight of fire.

Also, real quick, there are only two Catholic superheroes in the history of comics, and they're Nightcrawler and Daredevil. He's also Irish-american.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33212: May 9th 2015 at 9:00:20 AM

... I've just discovered that what I thought was a Spanish accent when I watched X Men Evolution as a kid, was actually meant to be German.

Wow.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33214: May 9th 2015 at 9:11:45 AM

Yes.

For, like, 12 years I've thought Nightcrawler was Spanish. How the hell...

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33216: May 9th 2015 at 9:18:22 AM

I don't know why, but I also thought Nightcrawler's civilian name was, like, Carlos. Or something along those lines.

What kinda freaking fantasy version of that show was I watching?

edited 9th May '15 9:20:27 AM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#33217: May 9th 2015 at 9:35:28 AM

[up]The one where Cyclops is actually a giant balding obese man with one giant eye, Angel's actually a divine being sent from on on high, and Storm is actually not from Africa?tongue

edited 9th May '15 9:36:28 AM by kkhohoho

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33218: May 9th 2015 at 10:35:58 AM

Actually I'm fairly certain he didn't intend to kill Nobu. The way he tosses the stick hints he was aiming at Nobu, and by stroke of luck the thing went too high and struck a lamp, setting Nobu on fire. Alternatively he was aiming at the lamp, but his purpose was to kill the light of the enviroment so he could fight in the dark (giving him an advantage), not setting Nobu ablaze.

At least that's the way I saw it. He doesn't react to Nobu's death because he doesn't see it as being his fault. It's a bit like Goblin impaling himself when he fights Spider-Man. Theoretically Spidey is responsible because by getting himself out of the way, he put Goblin in the sight of fire.

Also, real quick, there are only two Catholic superheroes in the history of comics, and they're Nightcrawler and Daredevil. He's also Irish-american.

Matt's a lawyer, though. He knows that manslaughter is still killing someone. Less severe than murder, but still a kill.

In the Goblin example, the Goblin launched the attack that killed the Goblin; Spidey is only culpable of avoiding it. Here, it was Murdock's attack that killed Nobu, whether he intended it to be lethal or not.

edited 9th May '15 10:37:13 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#33219: May 9th 2015 at 10:40:01 AM

Some info on how 616!Wanda and Pietro are no longer mutants or connected to Magneto. Thought I should post this here also since the original article about them not being Magneto's kids were posted here a while back and so the circle could be complete.

edited 9th May '15 10:43:27 AM by LordofLore

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#33220: May 9th 2015 at 10:40:59 AM

[up][up] That's the law, sure, but he might see it differently from a moral perspective. He gave a whole speech about separating morality from the law in the third episode - hell, he separates them himself every night.

edited 9th May '15 10:41:56 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#33221: May 9th 2015 at 10:43:13 AM

[up][up][up]And, regardless of that, Matt spend a good time brooding about what being a vigilant means and whether he should or should not kill Fisk. The fact he completely glossed over Nobu is very jarring. There is not even a passing mention. It is just really weird.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33222: May 9th 2015 at 10:43:53 AM

Ignoring things that are unpleasant isn't a moral perspective, it's a justification. In the course of using violence to achieve his ends, Matt's use of violence ended a life. Whether or not he ever acknowledges that, it is what it is.

The only explanation for the complete failure to address it that I can think of, other than Matt hypocritically making excuses for it, is that he was so beaten to shit that night that he might only barely even remember what happened. He might not even know he killed Nobu.

edited 9th May '15 10:46:40 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#33223: May 9th 2015 at 10:48:31 AM

[up]That is a thing I considered. It is still very weird, narratively speaking, but from an in character perspective it makes sense.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33224: May 9th 2015 at 11:51:02 AM

Regarding Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's parentage, that's pretty much what I was expecting them to do. I'm not happy they did it, but the Whizzer/Miss America route clearly wasn't viable, so I'm glad they went with the least complicated route.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33225: May 9th 2015 at 11:59:20 AM

Can the Maximoff's thing be that their parentage gets shaken up every couple years?

I think I would actually really like that.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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