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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#33176: May 8th 2015 at 5:36:45 PM

[up]Considering that Jessica and Luke actually showed up in Daredevil around the time Alias was going, I think Foggy showing up in TV!Alias is fair game.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#33177: May 8th 2015 at 5:37:55 PM

A crossover is indeed a possibility, especially considering how Luke Cage will be making his debut on Jessica Jones.

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#33178: May 8th 2015 at 6:48:49 PM

[up][up][up]They've more or less confirmed they plan to have Claire from Daredevil appear in other shows.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33179: May 8th 2015 at 9:46:24 PM

Ugh.

Am I going to have to watch Daredevil to have c9ntext for the other shows? Please, no.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#33180: May 8th 2015 at 10:01:19 PM

[up]You know, if you don't like Daredevil, that's fine, but I'm pretty darn sure the other shows will likely be similar to Daredevil in terms of its' general tone; if you didn't like Daredevil, I can't see how you'd like the other Netflix shows. (Especially since in Jessica Jones, our heroine will have a year-long bout of mind-control and mind-fuckery from a complete psychopath as a part of her backstory. To me, that's darker than anything Daredevil ever came up with.)

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#33181: May 8th 2015 at 10:08:46 PM

Only things I know about Jessica Jones are her relationship with Luke Cage and her history with the Purple Man, but aside from that I don't hear much about the stuff she actually does.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#33182: May 8th 2015 at 10:17:24 PM

She's a private investigator. She privately investigates stuff.

Think of her like a female Jim Rockford. Only with superpowers.

edited 8th May '15 10:17:39 PM by alliterator

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33183: May 8th 2015 at 10:23:34 PM

@Santa: You're right, but a lot of my dislike of Daredevil also comes from me finding Matt Murdock insuferably boring.

Jessica Jones and Luke Cage might not have that problem.

Like, if the protagonist of Daredevil had been Foggy? Or Claire? I probably would have watched it.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33184: May 9th 2015 at 1:45:10 AM

I don't think that you have to watch Daredevil, it just gives you a little bit of extra-background.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33185: May 9th 2015 at 2:09:28 AM

I can understand how someone might find Matt a bit banal. Hell, he's never been my favorite in the comics and I've rarely deliberately read a book with him in it. But the Netflix series goes a long way towards puncturing the character's ego. Unlike with certain heroes on the other side of the fence, Matt can't duck the question of whether he's doing the right things for the right reasons. Hell, he can't even keep from asking those things of himself. It's a nice contrast to the way other dark-and-gritty heroes are often given at best the "I did what I had to do" way out and at worst unquestioned moral absolutism.

Okay, fine. I'm talking about Batman.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33186: May 9th 2015 at 2:16:37 AM

It's less about the narrative presenting him as always right (which I'm glad it doesn't) and more about him just... not being a character type I really care about. "Troubled white dude with a traumatic past who has to do shitty things for The Greater Good" is so fucking boring.

If I wanted that, I'd just, I dunno, play Final Fantasy 7. Though, Cloud might not be white? He has blond hair, but anime stuff is always weird about that.

edited 9th May '15 2:19:35 AM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#33187: May 9th 2015 at 2:19:29 AM

Cloud had to shitty things?

Sounds like you're not that into anti-heroes.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33188: May 9th 2015 at 2:20:06 AM

Working for SOLDIER, kind of. I dunno, it's been a while since I played that game.

See, I don't mind anti-heroes in and of themselves. It's just the very specific type of anti-hero that Matt Murdock, and Batman and Cloud Strife are that really make me roll my eyes.

Though, if that character type is placed in a narrative that's otherwise lighthearted (like, I dunno, Yuri Lowell? From Tales Of Vesperia), or they're not a white dude, or they aren't the character that most of the story focuses on, I can probably drum up a bit of interest.

edited 9th May '15 2:27:20 AM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33189: May 9th 2015 at 2:28:44 AM

Hey, far be it from me to argue that white male anti-heroes aren't the oldest, floppiest hat at this point. I totally see where you're coming from.

(Oh, and in before the "he's Catholic that makes him underrepresented" crowd.)

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33190: May 9th 2015 at 2:29:33 AM

Catholic? Wouldn't it be more obvious to jump to him being blind?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#33191: May 9th 2015 at 2:32:06 AM

Why wouldn't I want folks to point out that he's underrepresented because he's blind? I mean, that's an argument I can actually get behind. And actually I do think it's a sufficiently different perspective that I'd argue for it falling under your "if they were a minority I'd be interested" point.

Nah, there was a pretty persistent line of argument before the show came out that having an overtly Catholic superhero was super-progressive, and that moreover the Catholicism angle necessitated him being white for some reason. I am making a joke at that argument's expense, even though it's largely disappeared, purely because I'm feeling kinda petty I guess? I dunno. I regret doing it now. It was gratuitous. And not very funny.

edited 9th May '15 2:33:43 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33192: May 9th 2015 at 2:34:32 AM

See, I am glad for the fact that he's blind. I feel like that's important. I just wish there was more about him that interested me than just that.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#33193: May 9th 2015 at 3:13:02 AM

[up]All fiction is subjective so I'm not going to fault you for not liking Daredevil. What I will say is that frontloading the Netflix series was due to Daredevil being the most well known of the 4 street-level heroes they were doing, and they also were going to keep him as close to his comics portrayal as possible. That way more casual fans would get involved with Daredevil, and then be more open to less known properties.

I don't think you are going to need to watch Daredevil to understand what's happening in Jessica Jones. The occasional reference might go over your head, but I think anything vital to the plot will at least be given a cursory explanation within the series.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#33194: May 9th 2015 at 3:15:51 AM

@Mukora Yeah I was going to say "cookie-cutter" anti-heroes but I thought that went without saying.tongue

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#33195: May 9th 2015 at 3:16:56 AM

I understand why Daredevil is the way it is, and I don't fault it for it. I just don't like it. I still think it has a right to exist.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#33196: May 9th 2015 at 3:32:38 AM

I'd give a counter argument, but the show could have at least MENTIONED Matt was of Irish decent if they had any interest in not whitewashing him.

Bleh, talking about Murdock's racial presentation in Daredevil always gives me a headache; because it always leads to horrifically ironic explorations to how inaccurate a term like 'white' is, considering it describes a demographic who's skintones tend to be darker than that of the Irish. Caucasian is even WORSE, being a word poorly designed to describe a third of the entire population of earth, named after a series of mountains in Georgia, and commonly used to describe a very small demographic.

edited 9th May '15 3:33:31 AM by Whowho

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33197: May 9th 2015 at 6:36:15 AM

Let's better not talk about racial representation in Daredevil. If the show has one major weakness than it is the over-use of stereotypes.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#33198: May 9th 2015 at 6:46:57 AM

There's no need to bash Daredevil like that. if you don't like it don't watch it. As others said though if your problem is tone it's pretty much been confirmed that at least AKA Jessica Jones and Luke Cage will have the same tone so you might be out of luck on that front.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#33199: May 9th 2015 at 6:57:21 AM

I think all the Netflix series will go for the tone...they are pretty much the "gritty" part of the Marvel world. Which is apparently limited to Hell's Kitchen....


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