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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#33051: May 7th 2015 at 8:00:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]That was the clearly fake one I mentioned earlier. The big tip-offs are no General Ross, Ant-Man basically being a cameo, and Spider-Man being a main character.

edited 7th May '15 8:00:35 PM by comicwriter

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#33052: May 7th 2015 at 8:00:46 PM

The movies mostly weasel their way out by having Hulk only Hulk-Out when there's a foe nearby. In Incredible, for example, he fights the punks at the favela (and later the military) and then gets the Hell out. It's actually a weird fight scene because the Hulk acts restrained and almost coldly calculating his moves so that he won't accidentally wreck an entire neighborhood which is really out of character for the big green guy.

In the college fight scene likewise he's being shot at (and the college seems to evacuate out of all innocents at a supernatural speed), and in the Harlem showdown he's fighting Abomination.

I mean killing isn't the precise problem (Captain kills when he has to, Stark kills liberally, Thor has never defeated an opponent who's not Loki without murdering him to shit), but the fact is the Hulk as portrayed (a unstoppable rage-filled animal) should be responsible for a lot more deaths.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33053: May 7th 2015 at 8:01:23 PM

This is the first time we've ever seen Hulk intentionally go after and harm innocent people who weren't a threat to him or others, which is sure to have weighed on his mind for the rest of the movie - since it was one of the contrasts the Incredible Hulk movie made between him and Abomination. Abomination targets everybody and causes mass destruction for the hell of it, Hulk targets only those who threaten or anger him, has no interest in hurting innocents and causes mass destruction by accident. It's a small distinction, but it's really the only consolation Banner's got when you think about it.

No wonder he wanted to kill Witch without even transforming.

edited 7th May '15 8:04:06 PM by KnownUnknown

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#33054: May 7th 2015 at 8:01:51 PM

[up][up][up][up]That's a good point, but it's a point that should've been in the movie itself and not left up to fan speculation. There's Fridge Logic, and then there's the movie just leaving out incredibly important details that change how you see the morality of the characters.

edited 7th May '15 8:05:02 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33055: May 7th 2015 at 8:03:17 PM

You're right.

I hope for a deleted scene where Cap turns to the screen and explains this. Just lays it all out there.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#33056: May 7th 2015 at 8:04:49 PM

There's also a difference between letting the audience figure things out themselves and not spoon feeding them every little thing the characters are thinking and how we should feel about that.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#33057: May 7th 2015 at 8:05:14 PM

Not surprised at hearing Agent Carter getting a second season. If it was going to be cancelled, the topic wouldn't have been dance around this much.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#33058: May 7th 2015 at 8:06:00 PM

I'd gladly cut out scenes of Black Widow having badly-written stilted romance with Bruce for more scenes exploring Scarlet Witch's morality.

edited 7th May '15 8:06:33 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33059: May 7th 2015 at 8:06:45 PM

[up][up][up] There's also a difference between the movie dealing with plot points adequately and spoonfeeding. As well as between having plots that allow the audience to make their own conclusions and having plots that expect the audience to fill in gaping holes.

IIRC, Iron Man 3 also had this problem - they danced the line between letting the audience make conclusions for themselves and outright not adequately following up on the plot threads it introduced (or introducing plot threads with no development). This movie did that quite a bit due to its poor pacing, though it's not quite as bad as IM 3's issues with it.

edited 7th May '15 8:07:37 PM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33060: May 7th 2015 at 8:07:37 PM

I want more awkward romance between Black Widow and Banner.

And I want Hulk to sing a heart-rending love ballad as he's flying away.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#33061: May 7th 2015 at 8:10:04 PM

Wrong thread for it, but I feel like celebrating.

(ahem) AGENT CARTER GOT RENEWED. HELL YEAH!!!!

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33062: May 7th 2015 at 8:10:30 PM

It is technically part of the cinematic universe.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#33063: May 7th 2015 at 8:11:40 PM

The problem is, if they're going to explore Scarlet Witch's character any further, it's either going to have to be in Civil War or Infinity War, and neither of those plots really have anything to do with her. So either Wanda will be reduced to "generic Avengers member" or she'll just hog screentime that could've gone to developing the main plot, which would just cause the issues with Age of Ultron to repeat themselves. Really, Age of Ultron is the only movie where exploring her character would still be relevant to the main plot (unless they tie her in to the new plotlines somehow, but I don't know how they'd do that. Wanda doesn't have an Infinity Gem in her forehead like Vision or anything like that).

edited 7th May '15 8:12:35 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33064: May 7th 2015 at 8:13:15 PM

Or, y'know, they can develop her in small ways.

She doesn't need some grand movie-hogging arc.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#33065: May 7th 2015 at 8:15:01 PM

Her character can be expanded in Infinity War. After all, not everything that happens has to do with the plot — just look at the farm scenes in Age of Ultron. That built up Hawkeye's character and was only tangentially related to the plot.

So Scarlet Witch can totally get more character development.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33066: May 7th 2015 at 8:16:36 PM

And even if she doesn't get her own subplot, there's the way they developed Widow in Winter Soldier - having her have a stake in the plot, even if it's not about her, and developing her largely on how she reacts to events as they develop.

In this movie, they largely had her not have characterization input unless it was specifically plot important ( like discovering Ultron was - gasp - eeeevil) and she didn't really have traits to express in battle like Quicksilver's smarminess. So she came off as underdeveloped.

edited 7th May '15 8:18:42 PM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33067: May 7th 2015 at 8:17:43 PM

I'm torn between totally wanting her and Vision to have a romance arc

and not wanting her character development time going to a romance.

Because though, if she and Vision do start getting together, maybe it'll happen in the comics again. And then I'll laugh and shake my fist at the sky, screaming BRYNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNE until my neighbors call the police.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#33068: May 7th 2015 at 8:18:44 PM

[up][up][up]Yes, but I didn't like the Hawkeye farm scenes, so I'd personally rather them not do that. Having a gazillion little side-stories that don't tie into the main narrative is fine for comic books, but I don't feel like it works in movies. It just makes everything cluttered up and inelegant. Movies aren't TV shows. Or rather, MCU movies are like really long TV episodes that require large investments of time and therefore ought to primarily be able to stand on their own to a certain degree.

[up]Between Bruce/Natasha and Thor/Jane Foster, I think maybe the MCU ought to be staying as far, far away from romance as possible...

edited 7th May '15 8:21:00 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#33069: May 7th 2015 at 8:20:44 PM

[up][up] And maybe, somewhere down the line, Billy and Tommy show up up in the MCU as a result of Vision and Scarlet Witch's...uh....dalliance.

I really enjoyed the Hawkeye Ma and Pa Kent farm scenes.

edited 7th May '15 8:22:23 PM by higherbrainpattern

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#33070: May 7th 2015 at 8:22:11 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing the Young Avengers once all the Avengers actors are dying of old age and the writers need to have a new generation but don't want to reboot the whole MCU or something.

And I'm not against taking some breather time between action scenes, but Hawkeye's character felt really boring and irrelevant even after it was developed. I'd rather Hawkeye not be on the Avengers at all if all he's gonna contribute is eating up screen time like that. Heck, I'm pretty sure that's the reason Hawkeye retires at the end of this movie. The writers were like, "Well, he's been developed enough, now let's get him out of the way since we don't really need him for the story or anything!"

edited 7th May '15 8:29:23 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33071: May 7th 2015 at 8:23:05 PM

I also liked the farm scenes

Because my favorite parts of the movie were the moments where the Avengers just sort of socially interacted.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#33072: May 7th 2015 at 8:27:25 PM

A three hour epic comic book movie would actually be great. I wouldn't mind seeing something on the scale and length of Peter Jackson's LOTR movies applied to the MCU (or DC for that matter; comics-wise I'm in their corner). I mean, comics are our modern day Greek myths and tragedies. I'd like the grandiose nature of them brought to life on screen as giant epic movies full of pathos and crap.

Sadly, two hour blockbusters are all people can sit through. Not everyone is there to see Vision spout on about what it means to be human. Most of the audience is there to see Hulk and Iron Man beat each other up.

Still, AOU didn't feel too terribly paced to me. The only really noticeable bits were Thor's subplot with the literal visions and the Hulkbuster fight dragging on forever.

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#33073: May 7th 2015 at 8:29:22 PM

The hammer scene is pure gold.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#33074: May 7th 2015 at 8:29:34 PM

[up][up][up]I completely agree with that sentiment. I thought the best scene in the movie was the party scene because it was just the Avengers hanging out. In fact, I think the characters of these movies tend to be way stronger than the plots.

And I liked Steve's and Tony's wood-cutting conversation and the parts with Nick Fury where stuff was actually happening, but the scenes of Hawkeye with his wife and Bruce's/Natasha's eye-rolling romance scene just dragged and on and on and on.

edited 7th May '15 8:30:37 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#33075: May 7th 2015 at 8:36:41 PM

And I want Hulk to sing a heart-rending love ballad as he's flying away.

Hulk switches off contact to Nat, and then...

"AND IIIIIIIIII...WILL AAALWAAAYS...LOVE YOOOOOOU"

"We're home, Chewie."

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