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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#32401: May 4th 2015 at 9:24:45 PM

Oh. That fan script.

GAH

That would have been a great lead into a Black Widow Movie! Damn it!

Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#32402: May 4th 2015 at 9:26:36 PM

[up][up] Tony Stark in the original comics didn't really make wise-ass remarks or jokes, or have a reckless behavior, but didn't he still kinda have an egotistic demeanor?

edited 4th May '15 9:26:57 PM by Brandon

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32403: May 4th 2015 at 9:36:06 PM

-waggles hand-

No more, I don't think, than anybody else really

Tony in the comics has lost and rebuilt his comics more than Donald Trump

And had plenty of personal lows with alcoholism or his armor becoming sentient and kidnapping him.

edited 4th May '15 9:36:51 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Over9000Pylons Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
#32404: May 4th 2015 at 9:42:35 PM

Tony Stark has always been egotistical and had Jerk with a Heart of Gold qualities, but don't forget that in the 60s comics especially, nearly all of the Marvel characers were deadpan snarkers, at least as far as the trope worked back then. A lot of people remember Spider-Man for being the jokester, but the early comics had everyone pulling that kind of stuff.

Tony's history with jokes is more restrained, and yeah, he's gone through his low points, but being at least somewhat self-absorbed is one of his traits. There's nothing inherently wrong with different character interpretations, which is why I like most of the MCU characters, which take the base characters and accentuate certain attributes to make them feel more unique from each other.

While this works for most of them, they unfortunately screwed over both Black Widow and Gamora, who are supposed to be cold but still good people with deadly combat skills, but instead come off as The Chick most of the time.

edited 4th May '15 9:43:56 PM by Over9000Pylons

An alternate time. An alternate world.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#32405: May 4th 2015 at 10:17:17 PM

I don't think Black Widow came off as the Chick. She was essential in the first Avengers and Age of Ultron and in Winter Soldier, she was pretty cold and calculating.

Of course, she can't be as cold and calculating as she is in the Marvel universe, because that Natasha once executed six people or, as Jessica Drew said, "Unnecessary! Unnecessary!"

edited 4th May '15 10:17:32 PM by alliterator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#32406: May 4th 2015 at 10:23:00 PM

If anything, The Chick in Ultron is Hawkeye.

Over9000Pylons Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
#32407: May 4th 2015 at 10:27:08 PM

Alliterator, that's the Natalia that I prefer. Cold, cynical, and would never say anything along the lines of "I adore you". Still part of the good team, but borders on being the Token Evil Teammate.

An alternate time. An alternate world.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32408: May 4th 2015 at 10:33:48 PM

Comics Natasha dated Daredevil

Not relevant, I just thought it was funny to bring up

And I don't think there's anything wrong with Natasha saying "I adore you."

This is a different take. One not born of the inability for any relationship to last, experienced over years and years of sliding timescale. This is a Natasha who has not been active since World War II I'm pretty sure. Younger. Cynical but not quite that cynical.

The comics themselves are inconsistent with Natasha. Shared universe, many writers, donchaknow.

The important thing is that she's competent. Is she competent? She's pretty competent.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#32409: May 4th 2015 at 10:34:52 PM

[up][up] Why do you view such a portrayal as superior?

[up] Also this. She can't be out of character if she was never that character here in the first place.

edited 4th May '15 10:40:33 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Over9000Pylons Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
#32410: May 4th 2015 at 10:53:45 PM

I'm well aware of the malleable nature of characters who have been reduxed over decades and decades of continuity, alternate universes, dozens if not hundreds of writers and millions of fans who all interpret things differently. You can say that about nearly any character from the Marvel Universe. Certain versions resonate with certain people, while other times certain traits become affixed over numerous versions.

Doesn't change that many fans cry foul when they see versions of their favourite characters that they feel are out of character. Sure, different interpretations are not necessarily bad, but they are not necessarily good either. I would feel totally justified in saying that (hypothetical scenario) Doctor Doom being portrayed as a loving family man with nine children living in his castle and who only attacks other nations when they threaten his own, and for some reason doesn't believe in magic, would be out of character. You could just say "it's a different interpretation", but for me, Doom being mostly a loner, who is self-absorbed, regal, master of both science and mysticism and a determined chessmaster are all important parts of his character, regardless of version or author interpretation.

And yes, I'm well aware of Kristoff Vernard and Valeria Richards. As I said, the hypothetical scenario was used only to illustrate a point.

MCU Black Widow has been off for me since day one. I don't like this version of her. That's all, really.

edited 4th May '15 10:55:30 PM by Over9000Pylons

An alternate time. An alternate world.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32411: May 4th 2015 at 10:55:45 PM

Actually the Doom traits you have mockingly made up have sort of existed in Doom within different points of his Doom timeline and Doom portrayals.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Over9000Pylons Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
#32412: May 4th 2015 at 10:59:16 PM

They were miscellaneous traits I picked out (and played up) from versions of Doom that I didn't like and threw in a blender. Still doesn't change the crux of my point, that for me, they don't fit.

An alternate time. An alternate world.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#32413: May 4th 2015 at 11:02:31 PM

A Ms. Marvel series would have to be animated because stretchy/shapeshift powers on a live-action TV budget would be terrible.

A Ms. Marvel movie in general is a good idea because Marvel really likes to have actors who are up-and-comers or whathaveyou and it'd be pretty easy to find a teenage Pakistani they could pay a beginner's salary.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#32415: May 5th 2015 at 2:32:22 AM

I don't necessarily care how the characters are in the comics as long as I like what they bring on screen. But once they have established something on screen I like, I hate it when they undermine it.

Black Widow started out as eye-candy in Iron Man 2, but then became a character which sounded interesting in The Avengers and finally got a lot of layers in The Winter Soldier. She was anything but the chick in there. I didn't even hope that Age of Ultron would built up on that, I would have been totally satisfied with an Avengers-lever portrayal. Instead they made her "the love interest", which is pretty much the worst role a female character can have in a movie.

edited 5th May '15 2:37:07 AM by Swanpride

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#32416: May 5th 2015 at 2:50:47 AM

Btw before the usual argument in this thread that Kamala doesn't need to be a Carol fan girl and could just as well be a Steve fan boy or something: that would mean losing her perfect costume which(by the designers own words)is 50% based on Kamala's background and religion and 50% her Captain Marvel fandom.

Btw the current Captain Marvel costume(not the stupid colorless one) is based on her past as a superhero(the sash came from her Warbird days), the legacy of her old friend Mar-Vell(the colors are flipped and the star) and her past in the Air Force.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#32417: May 5th 2015 at 2:52:05 AM

[up] Has anyone seriously argued for dropping that?

Oh God! Natural light!
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#32418: May 5th 2015 at 2:54:48 AM

Yes. Last time we talked about it multiple people suggested dropping the Carol fandom and giving Kamala her own movie in the next phase as a Captain America or Iron Man fangirl instead of giving Captain Marvel her own time to become popular in universe.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32419: May 5th 2015 at 2:54:54 AM

The stupid colorless one?

I can't find anything about that.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32421: May 5th 2015 at 2:58:25 AM

Oh, man.

The outfit, whatever. But that hair? God. Is that possible in real life? If it is she has to have it in the movie.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#32422: May 5th 2015 at 4:44:18 AM

Can't we go step by step? I am a vocal advocator for female representation, but there is no use in rushing this. I rather have a good Captain Marvel in a few years and a good Miss Marvel a few years later than getting the NOW and ending up with something rushed. I am currently more worried about getting more Agent Carter, because that's something Marvel should and can do now.

On a totally different note, has anyone looking at the box office result lately? Age of Ultron is barely out for two weeks and already in the top 100 of the highest grossing movies of all time. And it hasn't even been released in China yet. At this rate I am nearly afraid of where it will end up eventually.

And Big Hero 6 has been steadily climbing the ladder, too. It is too bad that Disney messed up the promotion and release of the movie so badly, but it is still the second highest grossing movie they made in the current era after Frozen.

edited 5th May '15 4:50:49 AM by Swanpride

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32423: May 5th 2015 at 4:45:14 AM

We've been going "step by step" for centuries. You'll excuse me if I'm kinda tired of waiting.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#32424: May 5th 2015 at 4:48:56 AM

[up]You don't have to wait. But there is no reason to complain that the doors are still missing if the roof isn't even finished. Like I said, Agent Carter (and Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel) are what we should focus on now.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32425: May 5th 2015 at 4:51:08 AM

I can totally complain that both are missing if they were due months ago.

edited 5th May '15 4:51:14 AM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

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