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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32276: May 4th 2015 at 2:10:15 PM

The problem isn't that Superman personally destroyed Metropolis. The problem is that he was more focused on fighting the bad guy than saving people.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32277: May 4th 2015 at 2:10:55 PM

Indeed. Sup's didn't do much to stem it aside from "punch bad guy". He gets a truck thrown at him by Zod and lets it fly by and explode. Iron Man gets a car thrown at him by Stane, catches it, and tries to save the panicking people inside.

edited 4th May '15 2:11:14 PM by Tuckerscreator

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#32278: May 4th 2015 at 2:13:16 PM

At one point, I believe Superman even flies Zod through a gas station or building, which causes more stuff to explode (and more people to die).

Compare that with Age of Ultron, where Iron Man was specifically trying to get Hulk out of the city and when that didn't work, dropped him into a building he knew was completely empty.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32279: May 4th 2015 at 2:15:31 PM

And also bought (?) the building

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32280: May 4th 2015 at 2:16:11 PM

[up][up][up] And Iron Man can believably have a climactic battle with a guy who just suited up in a shitty Mk.I knock-off that has never been tested and that he barely knows how to pilot as a result.

It's generally good form in storytelling to have the villain be more powerful than the hero. Superheroes tend to skew the opposite direction; the hero tends to become the established power base, with villains acting as challengers to the hero's title. One of the tricks for balancing the scales is playing up the fact that the hero's job is a defensive one; sure, Thor can break Loki in half pretty effortlessly, but just beating Loki isn't good enough; he has to beat Loki while also minimizing the number of people who die in the wake of their battle.

The villain can get away with being weaker than the hero because the hero has to be heroic; the villain just has to win the fight. Man of Steel had every opportunity to play this same tactic, as Zod had just discovered his powerset five seconds ago and should not have been even remotely a match for the much more experienced Superman. But it decided to conveniently ignore how thoroughly outmatched Zod should be in favor of massive destruction pieces, all under the cynical pretense of being "a more realistic battle".

edited 4th May '15 2:21:01 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#32281: May 4th 2015 at 2:19:02 PM

(Clark actually also tries to take the fight away from the "already pretty devastated before he got there city" and into space but Zod has the same powers as Clark so he forces the fight back into the city since he doesn't care about civilians and wants Clark to suffer for ruining his plan. Unlike Ao U it's a battle between a experienced soldier who wants to kill as many as he can vs a man who had never really fought for real before this day and doesn't want to kill to end the conflict)

edited 4th May '15 2:23:26 PM by LordofLore

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32282: May 4th 2015 at 2:22:43 PM

We never actually see or hear Clark's thought process when going to space, so I'm skeptical as to whether it's him actually trying to pull the fight farther away, if Zod himself dragged him there, or the writers were just going "and then let's have him go to space because it'll look cool and we can have a Batman reference!"

edited 4th May '15 2:23:03 PM by Tuckerscreator

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#32283: May 4th 2015 at 2:25:47 PM

I'm not actually talking about the fight in Metropolis - there's a bit earlier where they are fighting in Smallville, I believe, where he gets really mad at Zod for threatening his mother and, like, throws him through a gas station. (I may be recalling incorrectly, someone help me out here.)

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32284: May 4th 2015 at 2:26:21 PM

Unlike Ao U it's a battle between a experienced soldier who wants to kill as many as he can vs a man who had never really fought for real before this day and doesn't want to kill to end the conflict)

An experienced soldier who has never used these powers before and has no idea what he's doing, and whose battle plan at this point has been reduced to "lash out menacingly until someone kills me." His experience means approximately jack and shit here, just like how being an experienced swordsman has zero applicability to hitting a target from a mile and a half away with a sniper rifle.

And Clark has fought for real before this day: the Battle of Smallville.

There is no reason for Zod to be the insurmountable force here. He's a broken shell of a man lashing out with weapons he's never fired in his life. The movie just decided to have him be infinitely proficient with all the powers in five seconds because it couldn't have a climax without that.

edited 4th May '15 2:31:09 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32285: May 4th 2015 at 2:27:57 PM

There's a point that maybe Superman tried to get the fight away from the city. I mean, I've never seen the movie.

But its a directorial choice to have this fail and have it not be a priority so we can have big setpieces explode.

Its a directorial choice to have a tone for the MCU where the heroes do try and try again to save people.

And there are people that prefer that tone. That prefer that to a 'realistic' tone. shrug. (I am one of these people though)

[up] Actually the true crime of the Man of Steel movie is that you just know Clark isn't going to have a nervous breakdown and start thinking he's Gangbuster in the sequel. Like, geez. Way to drop the ball.

edited 4th May '15 2:32:06 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32287: May 4th 2015 at 2:35:54 PM

Good for him.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#32288: May 4th 2015 at 2:36:43 PM

I'm neutral on Twitter in general, but at least Whedon just quietly bowed out rather than Rage Quitting.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32289: May 4th 2015 at 2:38:28 PM

Poor guy really needs a rest.

edited 4th May '15 2:38:38 PM by Tuckerscreator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#32290: May 4th 2015 at 2:38:58 PM

I totally get being upset about Whedon's treatment of Widow, I know I kind of am, but frankly a lot of these complaints reek of Real Women Never Wear Dresses, especially the Indiewire article in the links. Whedon really deserves that break, especially when he's also got to deal with grabbing the attention of a gazillion misogynistic trolls.

edited 4th May '15 2:43:26 PM by AlleyOop

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#32291: May 4th 2015 at 2:40:15 PM

Can't say I blame him.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#32292: May 4th 2015 at 2:43:14 PM

This is part of the reason I don't tweet.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#32293: May 4th 2015 at 2:44:37 PM

I've never been a fan of his but it must really be taxing to devote so much time and energy to a project like this, and then end up with so many people saying "Meh, the first one was better" at best or "WOW THIS SUCKED" at worst. Especially since he said his goal was to top the first one.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#32294: May 4th 2015 at 2:44:44 PM

...why did the article say he quit over backlash when there is no evidence of that? Seriously?

It seems he quit because, again, he was burned out.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32295: May 4th 2015 at 2:47:30 PM

I'm wondering that too. His account didn't mention anything about Black Widow backlash prior to this day or the over the past week either.

Here's something nicer from Twitter today: sorta-Marvel 1602.

edited 4th May '15 2:47:57 PM by Tuckerscreator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32296: May 4th 2015 at 2:51:13 PM

His "final" tweet sounds depressed, but as noted, Joss announced his departure from the MCU due to burn-out a long time ago. I see no evidence that the Black Widow backlash has anything to do with his current emotional state. It hasn't even been that much of a backlash. This is his "final" tweet that all the fuss is over:

Now I may me down to sleep I pray the lord my soul to keep If I should die before I wake 'kay

and I put "final" in quotation marks because that was actually his second to last tweet. Eleven hours later, he tweeted

Thank you to all the people who've been so kind and funny and inspiring up in here.

and only deleted his Twitter a few hours after that.

edited 4th May '15 2:52:15 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32297: May 4th 2015 at 2:53:35 PM

Man.

I don't like Joss as much as I used to, but dude needs, like, a five year break from everything.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#32298: May 4th 2015 at 2:56:09 PM

Sorry to break away from the discussion of AOU, but I re-watched the first Iron Man movie. hadn't seen it in a long time.

Anyone else find it odd how Coulson just completely buggers off as soon as Stane activates his Iron Man suit, leaving his fellow agents to get killed off?

edited 4th May '15 2:56:29 PM by Brandon

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32299: May 4th 2015 at 2:57:38 PM

First time watching it, I thought Coulson had been killed until I saw him again following the final battle.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#32300: May 4th 2015 at 3:04:40 PM

[up][up] I think it was Early-Installment Weirdness. At the time it sounded like SHIELD was supposed to be a new organization.


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