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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32201: May 4th 2015 at 10:47:39 AM

Well Wanda says something about letting Tony take the spear after giving him the lower case vision while Pietro seems unsure.

I don't quite recall if there was a plan but I think the idea was to let Tony destroy himself so that it was slow and he'd have to stare at his demise like they had to stare at the bomb?

But it seems haphazard just to expect him to make an AI that would try to kill him.

Maybe I missed something.

[up] Maybe she does have some probability manipulation, hah

edited 4th May '15 10:48:06 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#32202: May 4th 2015 at 10:49:24 AM

The plan was for Tony to do something stupid from taking the staff. The how didn't matter, though it's clear Hydra was also attempting to use the staff to create an AI, since that's where all the little Ultron bodies came from.

edited 4th May '15 10:51:23 AM by stingerbrg

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#32203: May 4th 2015 at 10:50:30 AM

Well she got her mental abilities from the Mind Stone so perhaps she had some vague idea what it was capable of.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32204: May 4th 2015 at 11:00:25 AM

The twins were visibly shocked during that Doom Shout-Out scene where Ultron introduces himself to them. Wanda certainly expected Tony to do something stupid and self-destructive with the staff, but their reaction to Ultron's introduction indicates that this wasn't the plan. I don't think there was a plan beyond "Tony does something stupid and self-destructive," and even that was a spur-of-the-moment decision after she hexed him; initially, she and Pietro were just trying to defend the base.

edited 4th May '15 11:00:55 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32205: May 4th 2015 at 11:01:23 AM

Well, I jest but that's actually a top notch plan.

Because

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#32206: May 4th 2015 at 11:10:42 AM

[up][up]Yeah, that is how I read also.

[up]Yup. Betting on Tony fucking up seems to be a very safe thing to do.tongue

edited 4th May '15 11:11:10 AM by Heatth

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32207: May 4th 2015 at 11:13:50 AM

Anyone else found it sorta odd that Tony seemingly didn't receive any comeuppance at the end over creating Ultron? Yeah, he broke it so he fixed it, but I'm sure the world would still be furious at him for Ultron getting out in the first place. It's even what a lot people suspected why Civil War would come about, from the Avengers taking a big hit in popularity after Tony's creation nearly slaughters the world. This time they didn't just contain the villain's damage, they caused the villain in the first place. But the ending feel surprisingly upbeat and Tony's reasons for leavings seem to be more personal than legal.

edited 4th May '15 11:14:41 AM by Tuckerscreator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32208: May 4th 2015 at 11:16:52 AM

I can't remember, does anyone even know Tony created Ultron besides the Avengers and also Nick Fury because Maria Hill told him?

They're more likely to be in hot water for the Hulk rampage.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#32209: May 4th 2015 at 11:19:52 AM

wild mass guessHow Tony might screw up things in the future:

  • Civil War: "Look, this Zemo guy said he could fix everything if I left it up to him. How was I going to know he was ex-Hydra!"
  • Infinity War 1: "He said he would spare Earth if I gave him the Vision so I did! How would I know his army would stay while he left for space!"
  • Infinity War 2: "Making a guy with the power of the cosmos in his hand angry might've been a bad idea when he's on the other side of the room and thinking about killing everything."

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#32210: May 4th 2015 at 11:34:37 AM

[up] I don't know...is Tony that gullible?

Random rambling.

Because I watched How I Met Your Mother before the Avengers, I keep seeing Mariah Hill as Robin. [lol]

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32211: May 4th 2015 at 11:42:31 AM

Yeah he's less 'trust dude like an idiot' and more about making his own boneheaded mistakes.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32212: May 4th 2015 at 11:43:43 AM

does anyone even know Tony created Ultron besides the Avengers and also Nick Fury because Maria Hill told him? They're more likely to be in hot water for the Hulk rampage.

They'd probably get let off for the Hulk rampage because, well, Hulk is nowhere to be found now. And they did rescue an entire country the following day.

But the whole reason the country was even in danger was Tony's fault. And people would be asking where Ultron came from. It seems unlike the Avengers to be dishonest and claim, perhaps, that he was a HYDRA bot or something. Tony would have too much guilt from hiding that.

I get the feeling that the "alternate ending" on the DVD might be that. Or maybe not. Whedon often spoke about how he hated a film to leave the audience hanging, and putting the issue of the Avengers having to answer for Ultron would do just that.

edited 4th May '15 11:44:45 AM by Tuckerscreator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#32213: May 4th 2015 at 11:45:07 AM

[up][up][up][up]They could just blame the whole thing on Strucker since he did have the scepter and created the prototype Ultron drones. It'd be underhanded but hey, it's not like he's in any position to dispute it.

But yeah the bigger, more immediate problem is likely going to be the Hulk incident. I suspect that's why they moved out of New York City to a more secluded facility.

edited 4th May '15 11:45:18 AM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32214: May 4th 2015 at 11:58:42 AM

They'd probably get let off for the Hulk rampage because, well, Hulk is nowhere to be found now. And they did rescue an entire country the following day.

Why would that matter? The latter is wholly unrelated to the Hulk's rampage, and PR isn't a balancing act. That's like saying it's totally okay that cops sometimes shoot black people for no good reason, because they do lots of good stuff too.

As for the former, the fact that they completely lost track of the Hulk after his brutal and horrific rampage is more screw-up. Again, that's like a cop talking to the press and being all, "So, while he was in our custody, Bob murdered twelve people, but that's not our fault because he escaped our custody shortly after. I don't know where he is now."

Regarding the Avengers' culpability for Ultron

From the omniscient third-person perspective: we know that Ultron was a product of equal parts Tony's design and the Mind Gem's malicious intent. Thanos implies in the post-credits scene that the Mind Gem was a backup plan of sorts in case Loki screwed the pooch. The intelligent robo-brain Stark and Banner were analyzing in the beginning when designing Ultron f*cked up Ultron's "protect the world" design to create that "I must save the world by exterminating it," mindset. Tony got played.

From the Avengers' perspective: Tony made a sentient evil robot by accident and a lot of people died, but he also made a heroic evil robot. Vision is everything Ultron was supposed to be. Stark screwed up, but he acknowledged his screw-up and did everything in his power to fix it.

From the public's perspective: Nobody even knows what Ultron is. For all they know, Hydra was messing with technology they shouldn't have, and shit got ugly as a result. Given that Ultron's madness is rooted in the Mind Gem's corruption, that's not entirely wrong. Unless the Avengers decide to publicly volunteer their involvement with Ultron's design - and I do mean "their" involvement, as 1/3 of the organization was involved in creating Ultron - they have no reason to hold this against the Avengers.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#32215: May 4th 2015 at 12:01:16 PM

Tony is totally the kind of guy who would give up Vision to Thanos if it meant Earth had a sliver more of a chance of surviving while giving the heroes a way to maybe track Thanos to his base. The problem is that Thanos isn't the kind of guy who would go to his base or leave the planet before ripping Vision apart and taking the Stone. Thanos is the kind of guy who walks up to Black Bolt and says "Give me the thing I'm after or give me 100 of your subjects heads and get a day more to think about this offer before I come back or I can just kill everyone here right now and force you to give me what I want".

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#32216: May 4th 2015 at 12:04:38 PM

Steve wants to be honest with the world about their involvement. Tony wants to not get lynched. Captain America: Civil War.

[up] How powerful is Thanos? I was under the impression that Black Bolt was approximately hella powerful.

edited 4th May '15 12:05:28 PM by Ninety

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#32217: May 4th 2015 at 12:06:07 PM

Thanos is hella more powerful.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32218: May 4th 2015 at 12:06:27 PM

Thanos once beat the shit out of the Beyonder with his bare hands.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#32219: May 4th 2015 at 12:07:18 PM

[up] That sounds over-powered as hell.

...Where does the Beyonder stand as far as power goes?

edited 4th May '15 12:07:47 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32220: May 4th 2015 at 12:07:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]That would make sense, but Steve's parting with Tony seemed to be amicable. The issue of what to tell the public about Ultron never even comes up. That's what bothers me; it's just "yay we killed it!" then moving on.

[up]Powerful enough to pull chunks out of Earth and assemble them into a new planet.

edited 4th May '15 12:08:37 PM by Tuckerscreator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32221: May 4th 2015 at 12:14:21 PM

Thanos beat the shit out of the Beyonder? Geez

And he didn't have any of his typical cosmic macguffin doodads at the time?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#32222: May 4th 2015 at 12:15:09 PM

wild mass guess Squirrel Girl will be the final movie to the MCU, in which we have peace in our time. Lo, as Doom and Thanos tremble and the Asgardians make obeisance.

Why would that matter? The latter is wholly unrelated to the Hulk's rampage, and PR isn't a balancing act. That's like saying it's totally okay that cops sometimes shoot black people for no good reason, because they do lots of good stuff too.

That is how it often works in real life, though. Powerful authority figures are often judged by weighing their goods against their sins.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32223: May 4th 2015 at 12:15:52 PM

[up][up][up][up] That's because it is. More recently, Thanos had a grudge match in the Cancerverse with Nova Prime and Star-Lord, the former armed with the full power of the Nova Force, the latter armed with the Cosmic Cube, Thanos armed with "being Thanos."

Thanos is OP as hell. This is why things like "Trap him in a dying universe so that reality accomplishes what we can't" are considered good tactics against him.

edited 4th May '15 12:16:23 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32224: May 4th 2015 at 12:17:29 PM

THE CUBE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE EMPTY!

-froths-

edited 4th May '15 12:17:40 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32225: May 4th 2015 at 12:17:32 PM

You know how Thor and Hulk are pretty much Physical Gods compared to ordinary humans? The gap between humans the two of them is probably comparable to the gap between them and Thanos.

edited 4th May '15 12:18:37 PM by Kostya


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