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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#32151: May 3rd 2015 at 9:05:51 PM

[up]x6 Not the same thing. Its like The Chick or other similar tropes. The Love Interest is usually regarded as the supportive and secondary character to the other character who decides things in the relationship and is, generally, the protagonist.

In this example, Widow is appealing to Bruce, but it is his decision as to if this relationship goes forward and, ultimately, more his emotional arc than her's. Bruce is the one who rejects Nat. Bruce is the one who is having the insecurities about the relationship. Bruce is the one where the tension lays, not Nat.

BTW, Watching Winter Soldier again (because its the best Marvel Movie in my opinion) and they mention that only one Howling Commando gave their life for the service; Bucky. But, didn't one of them die in Agent Carter?

edited 3rd May '15 9:06:52 PM by InkDagger

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#32152: May 3rd 2015 at 9:08:27 PM

[up]Yeah, Carl. But that's okay. Carl was the sucky Commando. Didn't even have a codename. Nobody mourned.

(More seriously it was a covert ops thing post-War so maybe no one found out? *shrug*)

edited 3rd May '15 9:09:08 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#32153: May 3rd 2015 at 9:10:10 PM

Am I the only person on the planet that heard that line as ""Avenging"", making it clear that Mrs. Hawkeye was trying to be playful?

My various fanfics.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#32154: May 3rd 2015 at 9:11:55 PM

Yes, that I did, too. It's a silly name out of context and they way she said it was a light jab. Hardly Phantom Menace tier.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#32155: May 3rd 2015 at 9:13:52 PM

"Mrs. Hawkeye." Heh.

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32156: May 3rd 2015 at 9:14:38 PM

Carl. But that's okay. Carl was the sucky Commando. Didn't even have a codename. Nobody mourned.

"Junior" Juniper, actually. He was doomed. Doomed because he was the first Marvel hero to be Killed Off for Real in the 60s and so they had to kill him here too.

edited 3rd May '15 9:14:50 PM by Tuckerscreator

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#32158: May 3rd 2015 at 9:18:05 PM

And so his ghost watched over everyone, annoyed that his former teammates, his family, and even his gravestone kept getting his name wrong.

edited 3rd May '15 9:18:17 PM by Tuckerscreator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#32160: May 3rd 2015 at 9:25:06 PM

Also, the only one of them who does any actual avenging in the movie is Scarlet Witch, and arguably Banner. The others need to get on the ball.

edited 3rd May '15 9:27:42 PM by KnownUnknown

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#32161: May 3rd 2015 at 9:26:27 PM

One could argue that Tony is avenging his father by fighting Hydra, though I'm not sure he knows that.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32163: May 3rd 2015 at 9:40:28 PM

The All-New All-Different Avengers teaser from free comic day has Captain Falcon address this by having Iron Man say that if they had actually thought about it, they should have chosen the name Defenders because protecting lives is job one.

And then he made a jab at Wasp which was quite uncalled for.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#32164: May 3rd 2015 at 9:56:45 PM

It makes sense that Tony won't wear the suit in Civil War. I mean, it's a Captain America movie, not an Iron Man movie. But the difference is also ideological, not physical (at least I hope so, because I hope it doesn't go down the actual comics path).

Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#32165: May 3rd 2015 at 10:04:06 PM

Ever since it was announced that Robert Downey Jr. would be in the 3rd Captain America movie, I kinda assumed we wouldn't be seeing Iron Man anyway, just Tony Stark (possibly in a few small cameos).

BTW, I really should re-watch The Winter Soldier sometime, given a lot of people's praise of it. Don't get me wrong, when I saw it in theaters, I thought it was a good film, but my recollection was the film seemed less about Captain America, and more about the fall of SHIELD. The whole Captain America/Winter Soldier thing almost felt like a side plot.

But, I haven't seen the film since it was in theaters, so maybe I need to re-visit it. Maybe I'm just misremembering.

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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#32166: May 3rd 2015 at 10:08:09 PM

Regarding Black Widow and her sterility: I agree that the line is being overblown, but at the same time she was intentionally connecting her monstrous side with her sterility. She wasn't saying "sterile people are monsters," she was saying "I'm such a monster with no use for anything but killing that they made me sterile to keep complications from arising." As she said: It's very clean. When part of your agent's skillset revolves around seduction, forced sterilization is a brutally pragmatic solution to all sorts of problems.

Also, I'm not sure that Bruce was saying he couldn't have sex without Hulking out. I think it was more him not trusting himself around children for an extended period of time, plus with how screwed up his physiology is, he's probably infertile too.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#32167: May 3rd 2015 at 10:53:30 PM

They are similar in that they have resigned themselves to their fate as dangerous creatures. Bruce was saying that because of the Hulk he won't ever be a suburban dad with a family, and Natasha was empathizing with that by telling him how her history has done a lot to shut the door on that too.

While not horrible, I was not impressed with the romance in any case. Mostly because Natasha seemed to be all gung-ho and upfront about it and Banner was the sole reason it wasn't going anywhere. It would have been more interesting if there is more an Everyone Can See It flirtation and only towards the end Natasha opens up to him, only for Banner to reject her. As it stands there was no arc to their story, it's just sort of there at the start and sort of put on pause by the end.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#32168: May 4th 2015 at 2:30:23 AM

I thought Bruce believed he couldn't have kids because he didn't want to risk murdering his own children.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#32169: May 4th 2015 at 2:39:24 AM

I honestly don't care. The romance was a bad idea from the get go. One, Bruce is 15 years older than her, which is really pushing it (not that I think that it can't work, but let's be honest here, if it were the other way around the writers wouldn't even consider the option).

Two, it really smacks of "we need someone to have touching scenes with the Hulk, so let's use the one female in the team to do it", never mind if it makes sense for the character or not. And honestly, the scenes would have worked just as well if not better with Tony or Steve in her place. Not because of the bromance angle, but because Tony is the one who was rescued by Hulk in the last movie and Steve (who was woefully underutilized btw, aside from the one awesome scene with Tony) is the leader of the team and can, unlike Natasha, most likely survive a hit from him. But no, that might be too gay, so let do the one member of the team whom Hulk doesn't trust (at least not back when we left the them) do it. (Nevermind that I got more than enough "Kingkong scenes" in "The Incredible Hulk").

Three, while they bothered to find some not really sound explanation why Natasha should be interested in Bruce, they never bothered to explain why he should be interested in her aside from "well, at least one woman can accept my monster". That's not love. That's convenience. (Not that Natasha isn't awesome on every level, but so is Steve. Just because someone is a good catch doesn't mean that everyone will be interested).

Four, they spend way to much time on Natasha practically hunting Bruce and not enough time on them actually being together. If they ever were....Bruce certainly didn't seem to be particularly concerned when she got captured. Hawkeye was more worried than him.

And five, there was really no need to spend so much time on this just for the betrayal in the end. Because that one would have worked either way. In fact, I think it would have had a way bigger impact if it had been a betrayal from the team which Natasha executed instead of one from her alone.

Six, the whole thing with what the Red Room did to her would have been way less awkward (and actually an idea I liked) if they hadn't put it in the context of a romance. That's what created those unfortunate implications (along with the Monster-line which was really, really badly worded). In fact I would have loved if this conversation hadn't happen between Natasha and Bruce, but Natasha and Laura. The movie really needed some girl bonding, and wasted a perfect opportunity to let two very different female characters interact with each other past a few lines for...this.

Seven, the romance is just badly written from start to finish. All the tropes I hate so much are there. The "friendly push" for the reluctant male. The woman who naturally sees with one look what his husband didn't even notice because, you know, females have a radar for such things. Hell, the whole "I can't be what you want" conversation was one cliché after another.

Okay, this ended up a long rant, but honestly, if not for this story-arc I would have said that Age of Ultron is actually better than The Avengers in a heartbeat. Deeper themes, less predictable, better action. But this one arc seriously dragged the movie down for me. Each time it came up I was rolling my eyes, which took me constantly out of the experience.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#32170: May 4th 2015 at 2:48:33 AM

Well let see:

About the movie...is better thand Avenger, maybe because I feel the first movie was just "they joint each other and then kick ass: the movie" while here they show a good amout of chararterization good and bad: just see them working as a team but also their disagreement until the point I was actually was expectng Banner to do something against wanda or a least so thrast taking

The humor is good(specially with Burton and quicksilver but their are time where if is just....stupid, like Ultron "in retrospective" just to get punch by Thor...it feel a lot like Loki(and I dont really like that scene in particular) or who Strucker said he would surrender soon after, I makes feel goofy, and not in a good way

About Ultron...yeah, I dont really understand him too much, sometimes he is frighting and quite scary and other he looks like a EVIL!TONY which it make him a Iron man villan, I thing his best lines are with Jarvis(and them vision) his final chat was actually quite good and manage to get across his chararter pretty well but otherwise I feel just....weird, specially his "he feel pain" I was expecting him to survive but its a comic movie, villians rarely survive one movie(Loki be a weird exception)

About Natasha and Bruce....yeah, I really liked them, if feel a little fresh to see them try something instead of the typical "badass super couple" but....it really goes notwhere, it really bad that Natasha end as another betty: someone Bruce need to push aside since he is Hulk

overall the movie is good but also a little overfocus: Shield,Falcon,Warmachine in the big fighting,vision....is too much sometimes and he feel tiring after a while, I also feel Ultron didnt see so powerfulll, the fact that he need a plane to kill one of them feel.....weird

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#32171: May 4th 2015 at 3:39:09 AM

To be honest, I though Bruce was saying that the Hulk-multation or however you wish to phrase it made him sterile too. It didn't sound far fetched to me. At least, this thought came before Nat's reveal of HER being sterile.

I mean, I want Nat to have a love story, but more because I see a lot of traits in her that I usually don't see in ANY character usually involved in a love story. She has such great platonic relationships that I never really see in most movies and I think a romance with her could be great; but her thing with Bruce threw out A LOT of what made her other relationships so interesting in favor of a more traditional 'Girl flirst with guy, guy is reluctant about it' romance tumor.

AngelicBraeburn from Eccentric California Since: Jan, 2015
#32172: May 4th 2015 at 3:52:26 AM

My final thoughts on this film is that Age of Ultron is a good movie that could have been a great movie if it had been given 20 more minutes. And if the Banner/Black Widow sub-plot had went through a few more rounds of revisions.

Also one of the guys at the AV Club published a pretty funny article about experiencing the 28 hour Marvel movie marathon. I'd recommend giving it a read if you have the time.

edited 4th May '15 3:54:08 AM by AngelicBraeburn

The artist formally known as Deviant Braeburn
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#32173: May 4th 2015 at 5:37:43 AM

[up]The audience enjoys The Incredible Hulk far more than Iron Man 2. I feel oddly vindicated.

I mean, that sort of response should be a given, but still. Ya never know.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#32174: May 4th 2015 at 6:42:25 AM

I actually like Iron Man 2...or to be precise, I like all the world building stuff in it. The whole thing with Whiplash is just an annoying distraction.


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