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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#31951: May 2nd 2015 at 7:17:30 PM

[up][up]My mistake and my apologies. I thought you hadn't seen it. If you don't like it, that's fine.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#31952: May 2nd 2015 at 7:18:04 PM

The one-liners definitely felt stale this time. Personal favoritism left me with a bad taste in my mouth that they killed Quicksilver. I like that guy and he always gets the raw end of the deal in his stories. I did like incorporation of The Vision, and was accepting of the different origin of the Maximoffs, though i don't especially like it.

Ultron was portrayed well. You could see his insanity.

Did feel a bit cramped, too.

Edit: the push for narrative consistency (in terms of making everything centered around the Infinity Stones, including now more metahuman origins) does harm the films, i think. Part of good worldbuilding is the idea that there's a lot of stuff going on. The real world doesn't have narrative cohesion, and comic book world reflects that. There are a ton of different stories that clash and collide: Joker finds Kryptonite, Wanda and Pietro defect from the Brotherhood not to join the mutant heroes but join the Avengers instead, you've got future-conquerors like Kang fighting guys from ancient history like Gilgamesh. It's a big melting point and it makes the universe feel more lived-in.

edited 2nd May '15 7:21:50 PM by Ogodei

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#31953: May 2nd 2015 at 7:39:12 PM

I do kind of feel that Marvel gave Whedon much more free reign in terms of the dialogue, which is why there were so many one-liners and usage of Buffy Speak. Not quite sure it worked out all that well, but hey, could've been worse.

And yeah, Marvel Studios is approaching movies the same way they approach comic books, which has resulted in both positives and negatives. After all, what works in comics doesn't necessarily translate well into movies, which is where I think some of the criticism comes from.

Though, I also think that some of the critics dislike Marvel's approach of their films being a committee focused universe because they still prefer the auteur way of filmmaking, where the director gets most, if not all of the control over the film, and let's his/her voice be heard all the way through it. Again, Edgar Wright leaving also sort of illustrates how this can clash with auteur directors.

Your thoughts? Do you think Marvel needs to loosen up their strict world building and let directors have their voice and personal touch more visible in their films? Or are you fine with how it is going as is?

edited 2nd May '15 7:39:38 PM by LDragon2

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#31954: May 2nd 2015 at 7:41:47 PM

[up]x4

I still don't feel like that line was romantic. I don't feel like there was any build up to this and way too rushed. We go from flirting at the bar, to Steve telling Bruce to go after her just seconds later, to Hawkeye's wife saying 'Since when have they been a thing?' and then to kissing and pushing him off a cliff at the climax. It... didn't feel natural.

And the whole 'I'm pushing you off a cliff after kissing you' thing really didn't feel 'cute' or whatever it was intended to be.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#31955: May 2nd 2015 at 7:44:43 PM

Once we see the full three-hour director's cut, it may not seem as rushed. We do know that a lot of backstory was left on the cutting room floor.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#31956: May 2nd 2015 at 7:45:52 PM

I wonder if they're making a version with both the three hour cut and the theatrical cut or if you have to pick. I'd hate to pick one and then find out I prefer the other.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31957: May 2nd 2015 at 7:59:07 PM

I didn't mind the Bruce/Natasha thing. Definitely not cheering for it like I was Vision/Wanda they interacted briefly it counts shut up I'm not crazy YOU'RE CRAZY

but in terms of pairings they could do, I didn't mind it.

Probably because it was the very beginning of their relationship. They've only just decided to try to make it a thing when Hulk takes off for reasons but probably because Hulk quits in second issue

It adds emotional weight to that moment although Tony hearing about it and going 'noooo my science broooooooo' would have worked too., it added a new facet to Banner, and it really wasn't as much of a thing as you're bemoaning.

Also, circumstances and numbers are different but this is basically the setup to Cap's Kooky Quartet. A bunch of founding Avengers leave with Cap in charge of a bunch of new Avengers. So that's cool. Its an interesting roster too.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31958: May 2nd 2015 at 8:00:01 PM

They will probably release both separately. That's a pretty common (and shameless) tactic now to bring in even more money.

zsax Since: Mar, 2015
#31959: May 2nd 2015 at 8:05:46 PM

Marvel's The Avengers 2: Age of Ultron: The Three Hours Cut: The Search For More Money!

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#31960: May 2nd 2015 at 8:07:44 PM

You know I would have preferred it if Cap's team was Cap, Widow, Hawkeye, Falcon, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver. This team works fine but I'm kind of bummed it doesn't have the actual Quartet in it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31961: May 2nd 2015 at 8:16:22 PM

I definitely wouldn't have minded a the theatrical cut being a lot longer, so I'm looking forward to an extended cut.

I'm wondering how much use we're going to get out of that team in the first place. It's unlikely that the original team won't be back for Infinity War, so why not just make it one big team in-universe with rotating membership rather than a "new class" sort of feel? The only movie in between where the team would have the opportunity to show up by itself is Civil War, as Cap's group in the actual war, and unless Cap and Tony switch ideologies in the Cinematic Universe I don't see Rhodey going along with that, so the team will probably take a hit.

In any case, we won't have much opportunity to really see Cap's new team have a dynamic of their own until after Infinity War at the earliest.

edited 2nd May '15 8:19:53 PM by KnownUnknown

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#31962: May 2nd 2015 at 8:18:10 PM

Why, Bocaj, if I didn't know better I'd say that almost looks like shipping on your part.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31963: May 2nd 2015 at 8:25:58 PM

Get your optics checked, you're malfunctioning unit 90

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31964: May 2nd 2015 at 8:33:07 PM

[up][up][up][up]I guess it was in a way if you go with the idea that it's Cap and Widow leading the others. The choice to show those four separate from Cap and Widow (who were standing above them getting ready to call them to action) was a deliberate nod to the Quartet, I think.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#31965: May 2nd 2015 at 8:42:07 PM

Actually, I think the Russos have said "Infinity War Part 1" and "Infinity War Part 2" will be completely separate movies. So maybe Part 1 will be about the New Avengers and Part 2 will be about the Old Avengers. Actually, that sounds pretty cool.

Also, we know Falcon, Hawkeye, and Scarlet Witch show up in Civil War, so their going to get some more development.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31966: May 2nd 2015 at 8:46:14 PM

I've been really hoping Part One has the Masters of Evil (or something) with Thanos advancing and becoming more and more powerful all the while, until the very end where he shows up and wrecks everybody. And then part two is fully Avengers vs Thanos, stopping him from effectively wrecking the universe.

So, sort of like the end of Season 1 of Earth's Mightiest Heroes (replacing Loki for Thanos, of course).

Also, Vision is screwed. He is so screwed, man.

edited 2nd May '15 8:47:50 PM by KnownUnknown

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#31967: May 2nd 2015 at 8:48:09 PM

I don't know. It's so obvious that Vision will be killed to get the Mind Gem, that they may do something else to surprise the audience.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31968: May 2nd 2015 at 8:48:40 PM

[up][up][1]

I suspect Part 2 might be where they introduce some of the Phase 3 characters into the team, but it could be Part 1 as well. I strongly suspect we will see Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Captain Marvel all involved in at least one of the films.

edited 2nd May '15 8:48:54 PM by comicwriter

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#31969: May 2nd 2015 at 9:11:00 PM

@Bocaj: Joke's on you. I actually have degree 12 myopia.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#31970: May 2nd 2015 at 9:49:26 PM

I strongly suspect we will see Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Captain Marvel all involved in at least one of the films.

Well, Doctor Strange comes out before Part 1 and Black Panther and Captain Marvel comes out before Part 2 (I think). The only one that comes out after Part 2 is the Inhumans.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#31971: May 2nd 2015 at 11:25:16 PM

I am seriously worried about the Doctor Strange film, because the writers and director they chose for it have an abysmal track record, and this brings up uncomfortable feelings of early 2000s Marvel movies.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#31972: May 2nd 2015 at 11:48:15 PM

I don't know. Jonathan Aibel and Glenn Berger wrote the original screenplay and they previously wrote Kung Fu Panda and Monsters vs Aliens, which were both awesome. And then Jon Spaihts was hired to rewrite the script and Prometheus wasn't that bad. I mean, the writing wasn't that bad. And the director Scott Derrickson did The Day the Earth Stood Still remake which was beautifully shot, if completely unnecessary.

What I'm saying is: hey, Guardians of the Galaxy was directed by James "Scooby-Doo" Gunn. Give the movie a chance first.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#31973: May 3rd 2015 at 12:01:50 AM

The writers chosen for the film's script (before Jon "The Darkest Hour" Spaits rewrote it) are Thomas Dean Donnelly and Joshua Oppenheimer, who have done nothing both write one horrible film after another.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#31974: May 3rd 2015 at 12:16:50 AM

I think that the idea that Marvel is somehow constraining the directors too much is an exaggeration. It's not like all the movies have the same tone or the same emphasis. The Ant-Man situation was a combination of bad timing and the universe developing further while the director was busy elsewhere. That happens.

I also don't think that you can blame Winter Soldier for Bruce and Natasha not really clicking for me, because my main issue with their relationship was what Whedon himself established about the two characters in The Avengers. When he left them off, the Hulk has nearly killed Black Widow on a rampage and there were some serious trust issues between the two characters. Based on that alone she is the last character who makes sense for forming a "special calming connection" with the Hulk. Tony would have made more sense because the Hulk actually rescued his life. Thor or Steve would have made more sense because they can actually survive a punch by him. It felt like the sole reason why Natasha was put in this role was because she was the only female around, and not because it made sense for her character.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31975: May 3rd 2015 at 12:30:15 AM

The more I watch Guardians of the Galaxy, the more I kind of wish Ronan didn't die at the end.

Not because I see any plot potential in him surviving, of course, but because I like the idea of him running around the galaxy shouting "YOU STAND ACCUSED!" at random people.


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