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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I guess I never got the full impact of Coulson's death, then, because I didn't believe for a second that he was actually dead. The combination of us never seeing him actually dead, and Fury then lying about the circumstances of his death, had me convinced it was all a big fake-out. I was surprised, at the start of Agents of SHIELD, that they had him actually dying and being brought back.
I'm hoping that the death in Age of Ultron is actually permanent. You can't build something up as a gigantic threat and then have a dozen or more people fight it and none of them die.
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I figured that as well. About a second later, I realized that that entire rationale was essentially fanon that I cooked up myself thanks to having seen Justice League Doom, since the movie itself didn't even really begin to establish any of it. And even more noticeably, there's a lot of "why" there that goes undealt with. Not "why is he doing this," but more "why does Ultron even think that in the first place?" Similarly to Clark in Man Of Steel, he just kind of does.
Again, I feel like the inconsistency is, in part, intentional - that Ultron himself doesn't really know what his plan is or understand the ramifications of it. But even if the character is inconsistent, the plot they create should not be as a result.
edited 1st May '15 11:25:13 PM by KnownUnknown
I think the movie did make it clear. Tony created Ultron because he saw a vision of aliens returning to Earth and killing all the Avengers. Ultron has the same goal as Tony, keep aliens from one day totally destroying Earth. The clearest allusion is when Ultron talks about the dinosaur extinction, and how its asteroid massacre led to the eventual rise of sapient beings. Then he made Vision as his plan for making Earth's top species a stronger one.
edited 1st May '15 11:23:28 PM by Tuckerscreator
He made Vision either because he himself is obsessed with evolving into his own greatest form, or because he wanted it to be a symbol that he could use to inspire humanity. A case could be made for both, but Vision was a personal thing, not his new form of humanity.
For most of the movie, my impression Ultron gave the impression that the bare basics of his plot were to put humanity through hardships to help them evolve, and destroy them if they failed. He said things like "it will never get that far" when confronted about being omnicidal, and made a couple references to having faith in humanity in the beginning. Because of the way events progressed, his causing a Colony Drop in the climax was, at least to me, more obviously him lashing out when it was clear the Avengers wouldn't let him be what he wanted to be, simply because the rest of his characterization - such as it is - doesn't support it being his actual plan.
edited 1st May '15 11:28:09 PM by KnownUnknown
The part where they explain that Vision is the first step of the plan to replace humanity is the last scene at Hawkeye's house, when Bruce sees the drawing of a butterfly. The others had noted that Ultron has been building humanoid forms despite them being not the most practical shape for survival. Bruce then realizes that Ultron is doing that because he plans to transform humanity into something better, like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. So in a twisted way, Vision was what Ultron thinks humanity has to become to survive against future alien forces.
edited 1st May '15 11:29:13 PM by Tuckerscreator
They don't really talk about Ultron's overall plan in that scene. The whole time, they're talking about Ultron himself - that Ultron keeps changing the way he looks, and that he seems to be trying to decide on something. They come to the conclusion that he's creating something, but for himself.
edited 1st May '15 11:31:28 PM by KnownUnknown
Ultron does, though. And if it hadn't been that, then Ultron could have made Vision out of pure vibranium, not a vibranium-cellular mix, and the android would have turned out fine. But instead he made him part-human. Ultron even tells Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, after they realize his plan is for a global cataclysm, that humanity after the big boom will have every opportunity to continue with him and rebuild... if they survive. If it means they evolve into something better, then great for them, Earth has gotten stronger.
Butterflies don't have anything to do with invention, either. They're a clear allusion to evolution.
edited 1st May '15 11:32:41 PM by Tuckerscreator
Why the assumption that Ultron didn't think a Vibranium/cellular mix was an optimal change for him? He gave every indication that he thought being part-tech and part-biological was superior than the way he initially was. He could have - arguably - made Vision out of pure Vibranium, but he clearly preferred to be a mix.
Jumping from "humanity will be stronger for the disaster" to "I will remake humanity into a race of Visions" seems like a leap, especially since he doesn't do the whole "all that will be left is metal" thing until after his Villainous Breakdown.
edited 1st May '15 11:34:45 PM by KnownUnknown
Because when Ultron built himself a new body for the final battle, it was pure Vibranium, not semi-organic. He didn't make Vision semi-organic because it's stronger than a robot body, or else Ultron would have done that to himself. He made Vision semi-metallic because it's stronger than a human body.
edited 1st May '15 11:36:19 PM by Tuckerscreator
He did that because he didn't have access to the Vision process any more. The Avengers saved Dr. Cho, stole Vision and took the means they used to create him. He literally had no way to make himself a new mechanical-organic body, so his initial plan to transfer his mind into the Vision was a flop. Plus, remember that in the final battle he didn't care about evolution any more - he was out to make humanity suffer.
edited 1st May '15 11:37:39 PM by KnownUnknown
He probably could have stolen another scientist or gained her knowledge about the process through her computers or through Scarlet Witch or the spear/Mind Stone, if he really wanted to.
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After his Villainous Breakdown he's dismissed Vision as a lost cause.
edited 1st May '15 11:39:19 PM by Tuckerscreator
In order: what other scientist? Dr. Cho's work was apparently unique. He didn't have access to Scarlet Witch after the battle at the lab. He didn't have the Mind Stone either.
Much like Loki, Ultron he people do his work for him, so he didn't need to learn to do it himself. If he had, he wouldn't have needed Dr. Cho alive at all.
edited 1st May '15 11:41:04 PM by KnownUnknown
It bears nothing that Ultron calls Vision 'his vision' later on
indicating that Vision may have been his vision for humanity.
I guess you could also interpret it as his vision for his ideal self but that doesn't fit in as well with everything else.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI mean while she's working on it, he had those ways to absorb the knowledge from her so he'd remember it and thus later use it himself. The computers way was the most likely, at least.
This is starting to get more theoretical and nitpicky and I'll probably have to rewatch the film to recall lines that support this theory.
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Ultron's plans for Vision are pretty much the only part of this plan that we do get straightforward info on. It not only works, it makes more sense than the alternative because we're informed that that's what he wants to do. If Ultron didn't want to be Vision, but instead wanted to make humanity into Vision, then him talking about and acting out a large part of his plot to transcend his form and transfer his own mind into Vision doesn't make sense.
Possibly, but just assuming he could have done it and the reason he didn't is just because he didn't want to is a pretty big leap, especially given that without such a thing being actually established its rather contradictory.
edited 1st May '15 11:47:37 PM by KnownUnknown
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...wait what? What ways to absorb knowledge? I have no idea what you are talking about.
Like the people above said, Helen Cho's Cradle was the only device that could create artificial skin which bonded with the vibranium. So after that was taken by the Avengers, he chose to just make himself a new vibranium-only body.
He's saying that since Ultron was all over the internet, he could've just taken the schematics and done it himself or something.
Which is possibly true (and something Ultron does all the time in other media), but also speculative in this case.
edited 1st May '15 11:58:13 PM by KnownUnknown

From what I got about Ultron, the cataclysm was his plan all along. His logic is as follows: One day a cosmic horror will come to Earth with an even bigger army than last time, therefore cause something along that scale that will force the survivors to evolve and become stronger. Or at least will weed out all humans and let the only inhabitants be the stronger androids like Vision.
edited 1st May '15 11:15:15 PM by Tuckerscreator