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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Northwind Since: Dec, 2013
#31301: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:09:27 PM

One complaint that seems to be cropping up is that the character development from the previous films (such as The Winter Soldier and Iron Man 3, neither of which I saw) seems to be... ignored.

So basically the same thing that happens with crisis crossovers/team books in comics. Character developments in the solo books/films are ignored or sidelined to better fit the dynamic that the writer has in mind.

Yeah, I can see how that would piss people off who aren't used to it. I'm so desensitized to that aspect of shared universes at this point that it won't be a problem unless the characterizations are really out-there.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#31302: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:23:55 PM

It's extra aggravating because films like IM 3 and The Winter Soldier made a big point of incorporating The Avengers into the heroes' characterizations (Cap's own OO Cness in that film aside), but either Whedon or whoever made the call here isn't willing to make it a two-way street and do it from the other way around.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31303: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:32:36 PM

I felt Tony's behavior was the logical progression of what occurred in Iron Man 3 in a way, but Fury was the one who struck as the most blatant case of "Yeah, we're just gonna ignore that." Whedon even seemed to overrule the Russo brothers on the eye patch!

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#31304: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:40:36 PM

I haven't watched the full interview with the Renner and Evans' comments about Widow being a "whore" yet but I'm seeing some people point out that apparently in proper context it was supposed to be sarcasm, and the interviewer was the one being sexist.

I guess I can see that, since it was her who chose to ask the same tiring questions female characters always get about their love lives rather than asking about more interesting things after all, and seeing that they commented on Widow's supposed prosthetic leg already makes me not want to take their comments at face value, even if the two made some tasteless word choices.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#31305: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:46:55 PM

Too bad some of you can't read spoilers. Now you'll never find out that Coulson is actually Thanos in disguise.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31306: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:49:13 PM

[up] I took that gamble and broke even, good sir.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#31307: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:50:07 PM

[up][up][up] Evans and Renner apologized for their remarks, at least Evans did.

edited 23rd Apr '15 3:50:26 PM by higherbrainpattern

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#31308: Apr 23rd 2015 at 3:59:11 PM

I think it's a mixed bag on how well the characters progress. Thor certainly feels like he's even more acclimatized to earth than he was in The Dark World. Cap and Tony's progress both seem to retred their solo movies ever so slightly. Cap has fully gotten over being a man out of time, but is still searching for what his life will consist of post SHIELD, and Tony is still dealing with PTSD, but also trying to make good on his commitment to retire he made in Iron Man 3.

Cap and Natasha certainly take on a more snarky voice than they had in The Winter Soldier, but honestly; I think it ties in well with showing how relaxed and human they've come over the years with their lot in life and their friends.

Also, I don't think the pacing or plotting is convoluted like The Amazing Spider-man 2. Here, every plot line bar The Vision justifies it's own existence. And at any one time, we're either following Ultron enacting his master plan, or the Avengers trying to pre-empt, respond or recover from it. If anything, I'd argue the plotting is far TOO tight; the scenes all zip along at a great pace, meaning they don't feel like they're given room to breath and establish tone. But honestly, I'm not sure how else you'd do a story with ten main characters in nay other way.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#31309: Apr 23rd 2015 at 4:04:12 PM

[up][up]

Good on him then. Even if the comments were indeed sarcastic it's nice to see him act responsibly.

[up] How does Thor fare in this film you think? I personally found him rather disappointingly dull in The Avengers and TDK, despite liking him in Thor 1.

edited 23rd Apr '15 4:44:14 PM by AlleyOop

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#31310: Apr 23rd 2015 at 4:46:56 PM

Anyway, I've spent enough time discussing flaws, I want to gush for a bit.

Oh my was it ever so pleasing to see just how COMPETENT they all were as a team? They have comm protocol, they have civilian evacuation protocol. In fact, the constant awareness of civilians was so delightful to see. (Made all the more important, because as a first, this film didn't shy away from casually showing civilian casualties, which I thought was really important) they were also aware of potential issues and had prepared for them. Having hypnosis used on the Hulk? Ingeniously competent. They were able to very quickly evaluate the presence of super humans and incorporate that into their assault. It was great seeing them use lethal force against Hydra. It was also grand seeing the Iron Legion, not only that, but the Iron Legion used intelligently rather than as drones. The whole concept of veronica used in joint with satellite surveillance as well.

Also, I want to gush about just some great moments. Bruce forcibly hugging Wanda in an enclosed space and saying 'Give me a reason to get angry' was just brilliant, really shows Bruce has matured in his employment of the Hulk. Hulk didn't talk, boo, but certainly he was a lot more of a character, and Tony and natasha had conversations with him even if he neglected to respond. Also, I think the team ribbing on Clint was done just right, it was just harsh enough that you'd want to take sympathy with Clint, but not too harsh that you'd think the other members dicks. We also didn't have Thor say 'Ultron, We Would Have Words With Thee.' but eh. I still think Natasha and Bruce's storyline was the one I engaged with the most; I think it followed on really well from all their previous appearances, and it failed for perfectly realistic reasons. Also I think Wanda and Peitro were done in such a way they worked equally well as villains and heroes. For instance; Wanda playing mind games on the guy with PTSD initially made me really loathe her, but her saving Doctor Cho before making an attempt to leave herself was just so delightfully subtly heroic. Likewize, Petrio had enough anger and immaturity for him to be simultaneously sympathetic and fun to root against. Ultron also I thought was a really great realisation, he was almost Disney Hades like in how he acted, but that scene with him and Klae was just a perfect interpretation of the character for me, Hank Pym or nor Hank Pym. I also really appreciated how blatantly in love with Wanda he was.

And on the topic of the over arching meta plot So finally can people stop complaining that Thanos was stupid to trust Loki with the mind stone? Obviously regardless of where the Mind stone ended up; it would be a win scenario for Thanos. The stone would make Ultron, who would destroy which ever planet it's on, and then Thanos could just go pick up the Mind gem and or Space gem while he admires the lovely gift he's sent to his bae.

Edit: [up] of the six original Avengers, Thor gets the least attention I think. Certainly he's a lot more likeable as a character; because he has no issue with fully disclosing Asgard information to the rest of the team this time. In the first act he's probably the most charismatic with the material given to him, but once the threat ramps up he does revert to bland, but unlike the previous films, he doesn't spend the movie mopey or grumpy or grouchy.

Edit Edit, yet more gushing, I can't help myself.

I think my favourite line in the entire movie was Cap saying 'This is what SHEILD was meant to be.' hot damn was that satisfying seeing Cap say after how much the organisation put him through in his past him. And it truly captured the heroic tone of the third act. And I'd like to say the Hulkbuster fight was brilliant, most because it was both hilarious and terrifying. You fully believe that Tony knows there's a massive risk that Bruce is going to murder him, and it really comes through. Honestly, the Hulk is far more terrifying in an ensemble film where you care about the people he might hurt.

edited 23rd Apr '15 5:07:17 PM by Whowho

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31311: Apr 23rd 2015 at 7:10:45 PM

True, making The Mind Gem responsible for Thanos and Vision at least made it so the Infinity Wars subplot was organic to the story. And as a result AOU didn't come off like a Bizarro Episode as some people seemed to be suggesting.

The one thing I did find odd is Whedon saying he asked James Gunn to cut down Thanos' role in Guardians of the Galaxy to avoid stepping on Whedon's toes, when Thanos does fuck all save for the mid-credits scene. I wonder if he had a bigger part that ended up reduced here too.

edited 23rd Apr '15 7:14:29 PM by comicwriter

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31312: Apr 23rd 2015 at 7:27:27 PM

Another thing I saw as interesting was the ending sort of acknowledging the importance of a SHIELD-like institution in the world. I know there were some who criticized The Winter Soldier because they felt the decision to destroy SHIELD completely was kind of rash and shortsighted, so it was a nice touch here.

And here's a preview of the SHIELD tie-in to Age of Ultron.

edited 23rd Apr '15 7:30:19 PM by comicwriter

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#31313: Apr 23rd 2015 at 7:30:54 PM

Well SHIELD would probably exist in some way even if it was shut down by the government. Either reformed with really strict security protocols or remade into another agency.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#31314: Apr 24th 2015 at 1:24:23 AM

okay, I have to ask: What is the deal with Matt and Clint meeting in a dumpster?

Ithilgore Since: Jan, 2001
#31315: Apr 24th 2015 at 4:51:42 AM

[up][up][up][up] It had nothing to do with stepping on Whedon's toes, it was that Whedon believes Thanos should have very little screentime before Infinity War, just glimpses.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31316: Apr 24th 2015 at 6:34:05 AM

Paul Rudd seems to suggest part of the friction with Wright was Marvel's desire to integrate Scott Lang into the greater MCU while Wright wanted more of a standalone film. He says he's also talked about future appearances in other movies.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#31317: Apr 24th 2015 at 7:21:46 AM

[up][up][up] Has that actually happened in the MCU, barring fanfic?

edited 24th Apr '15 7:21:56 AM by higherbrainpattern

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#31318: Apr 24th 2015 at 7:50:13 AM

I didn't think so. Only times I've heard of Matt and Clint meeting in a dumpster were on Tumblr.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31319: Apr 24th 2015 at 7:57:04 AM

Yeah it's a joke from Tumblr about the number of times Hawkeye finds himself beat up or in embarrassing situations.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#31320: Apr 24th 2015 at 8:13:26 AM

Oookay...that explains why Clint should be in one, but why should Matt find him there? It currently feels that half of the crossover-stories with the MCU are about them meeting in a dumpster (the other half is about Matt and Skye meeting at St. Agnes, but that one I can understand because it is a valid connection between those characters). I don't know, wouldn't it make more sense that Matt encounters the Avengers as lawyer than random meetings in a dumpster?

Cross (Don’t ask)
#31321: Apr 24th 2015 at 8:24:31 AM

One of the Daredevil episodes opens with someone find Murdock in a dumpster.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#31322: Apr 24th 2015 at 8:33:22 AM

Something I was kind of surprised about after Ao U: They never say why Widow's new catsuit has tronlines or what they do(she also doesn't use her shocksticks until the final battle but that's another thing). I'm guessing Disney just wanted the chance to sell more toys?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31323: Apr 24th 2015 at 9:10:20 AM

Well Tony has an offhanded line about making everyone look cooler. In-universe they probably wanted her to wear something a little flashier and more superhero-y so she doesn't look so sinister.

Whedon used the same logic in his X-Men run.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#31324: Apr 24th 2015 at 9:43:26 AM

What really struck me with this film is just how huge the scale of the MCU is.

When Avengers came out two years ago we assumed that the sequel would have Thanos but instead we get an all new villain and more build up to Thanos in I'm assuming number 3 with several other big films in between.

Speaking of Ultron what did everybody think about him?

Ithilgore Since: Jan, 2001
#31325: Apr 24th 2015 at 10:11:13 AM

Ultron was great, but had too little screentime to be a top villain. He also wasn't what many were expecting, and I will guess that many will say he's a bad villain because of said expectations.


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