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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

zsax Since: Mar, 2015
#31151: Apr 21st 2015 at 7:44:44 PM

[up][up][up][up] Actually, I had the Mjolnir thing spoiled, along with several others plot points, so not much of a surprise there.

edited 21st Apr '15 7:46:33 PM by zsax

Rvdz Don't mock the shocker from in a bar, under the sea Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Don't mock the shocker
#31152: Apr 21st 2015 at 7:46:32 PM

Shit, I'm sorry. I thought putting a capital warning before the spoilers would help. Hope I didn't ruin anyones fun.

Sing the song of sixpence that goes burn the witch, we know where you live
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#31153: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:30:41 PM

While I think the claims get a little exaggerated I'd agree with some of the Cap fans that he was a little OOC in Avengers. Both Cap films showed him as pretty rebellious and the kind of guy who does things on gut instinct (such as immediately charging into Germany alone) so it was pretty jarring when I rewatched Avengers and he was all "no wait we need a plan of attack" and so on. I'm willing to settle for Cap being disoriented by the thaw as an excuse, but it still feels like Whedon doesn't really get Cap (somewhat understandable because he's not the one who wrote him in the first place) or isn't interested in trying to.

[down]I thought that line was fine. From his tone he was probably being snarky, and while I'm not religious myself it's nice to have a character who's open about his faith and isn't bigoted in some way.

edited 21st Apr '15 8:45:55 PM by AlleyOop

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#31154: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:40:33 PM

[up] That and the "there's only one God and he doesn't dress like that." I mean, it's one thing to make point out that Cap's religious, it's another to make him sound like a parody of hardcore fundamentalists.

edited 21st Apr '15 8:40:56 PM by higherbrainpattern

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31155: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:41:37 PM

Also telling Natasha "There's only one God, ma'am!" seems at odds with how open minded he is in The Winter Soldier.

Evans actually said he preferred the take in WS because he thought all the "GET IT, HE'S OLD?" jokes were too easy and on the nose.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#31156: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:43:03 PM

Oh come now, people can believe in god and still be fairly open-minded.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#31157: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:47:01 PM

Worth noting is that Whedon wrote part of the script for The First Avenger. It wasn't as if Cap started punching Thor and calling him a false god.

edited 21st Apr '15 8:48:02 PM by Tuckerscreator

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31158: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:47:58 PM

[up][up]Same here. Heck, let's use myself as an example.

I believe in God. I also believe that other people are open to believing to what they want to believe, even if I don't believe it. I am also open to gays and transgenders, and I also am rather critical of the way my Government does just about everything.

Basically, if some random schmuck such as myself can believe in one God while still being so open minded, then why can't Captain Freaking America be the same?

edited 21st Apr '15 8:48:10 PM by kkhohoho

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#31159: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:50:06 PM

I believe Joss Whedon is himself an atheist, so overall I don't think that he did a bad job with Cap. It shows that he can write characters with different beliefs than him in a respectful manner, and there are plenty of other writers for whom we can't say the same.

Oh God! Natural light!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#31160: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:50:35 PM

[up][up]Yeah. He didn't seem particularly close minded or overly religions in the Avengers. He was just reassuring Natasha by pointing out the Asgardians are not actually gods and, so, he would be able to deal with them. It is not even like he was wrong. Thor isn't a god.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#31161: Apr 21st 2015 at 8:52:19 PM

The Hulk is clearly close-minded for grabbing a superior deity and smacking him on the floor, while also close-minded Cap dealt with Thor peacefully and urged him to be better than a guy who picks petty fights.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#31162: Apr 21st 2015 at 9:06:16 PM

I think I'll take a retreat from this thread until I've seen Ultron. See ya in a little less than two weeks.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#31163: Apr 21st 2015 at 9:24:24 PM

Even with whatever faults there are in it, I expect Ultron to be loads better than the first Avengers which is one of the weakest Marvel movies around in my opinion. Given that Ultron doesn't have the gimmick of "oh look all these heroes are in the same room, fighting the same bad guy, isn't that revolutionary?" to fall back on so there actually has to be a plot is enough to give me confidence.

Also the Buffy Speak doesn't really bother me; it is pretty realistic, and really only out of character for a few characters. What really bothered me about all these trailers was Bruce saying "Artificial Intelligence" to Tony. Like we still need what AI is explained to us? Like that goes all the way back to Fritz Lang's Metropolis...

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#31164: Apr 21st 2015 at 10:13:03 PM

All things considered, the first Avengers was a pretty simplistic story, yet that is one of the reasons as to why it worked, since it was able to focus on the characters and their interactions with each other more, while not having to worry about all that other extraneous stuff. AOU seems to have a much more involved and complicated plot, but that also means less time for more personal interactions and character growth. It's a tradeoff really. You either get more character growth or more story threads. Which one you like all depends on taste.

Also, when this guy was analyzing the Raimi vs Webb Spider-Man films, he also mentioned his problems with the MCU, or rather, the amount of films being made, near the end:

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#31165: Apr 21st 2015 at 10:31:46 PM

[up]Honestly, with this reviewer I keep wondering if he confused the movies....the reboot had its issues, but when it comes to character development and showing his any struggles, they do way better than the original trilogy.

Concerning Age of Ultron, I don't care one bit if the movie sets up a lot of MCU stuff. Even in Iron Man 2 I liked those elements better than the rest of the movie so....

I just want to see a good, entertaining movie. Nothing more, nothing less.

edited 21st Apr '15 10:51:20 PM by Swanpride

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#31166: Apr 21st 2015 at 10:59:56 PM

@L Dragon: But it sounds like there IS a lot of character development in this film, from what I've read.

And really, why are you already coming to conclusions before you've even seen the film? I don't know if any of the negatives people have mentioned will affect my enjoyment of it. I have to see it first. Yes, others can have opinions, but they're NOT MINE.

Let me put it this way: Can we please regroup and talk about our opinions AFTER we've had a chance to form them?

Or are other people just going to make up our minds for us? I'd like to know now so I can get with the program.

edited 21st Apr '15 11:06:08 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#31167: Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:08:09 AM

[up] Don't you know anything about The Evils of Free Will?! Individual opinions are simply preposterous!

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."
Ithilgore Since: Jan, 2001
#31168: Apr 22nd 2015 at 3:39:23 AM

A bit weird to complain about character development when the most common source of praise for Ao U so far has been the characters, particularly Hawkeye.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#31169: Apr 22nd 2015 at 5:23:22 AM

Welp, five minutes into the movie the 3D(which feels really bad. This was a "apply 3D after the movie is filmed", right?) shit itself and rendered the movie unwatchable. They are getting a new copy from another cinema but this really isn't the greatest start to the movie.

Rvdz Don't mock the shocker from in a bar, under the sea Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Don't mock the shocker
#31170: Apr 22nd 2015 at 5:38:06 AM

Funny, at my showing the sound was cut off for the first five minutes, so they had to start it all over again. I didn't notice the 3D being that bad, though I watched it in IMAX, so maybe that makes a bit of a difference.

Sing the song of sixpence that goes burn the witch, we know where you live
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#31171: Apr 22nd 2015 at 7:51:02 AM

I took time to do a little happy dance after a few of my pet theories were proven correct rather than Jossed.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#31172: Apr 22nd 2015 at 8:26:42 AM

Done. Gets 3/5 on the Lord of Lore Scale of Movies which has currently been used on more than 300 movies. Main cons are a forgettable soundtrack apart from the main theme, CGI that looked good in space where everything was CGI but bad on Earth where most things are real, the camera work/photography has way too many quick cuts and zooms, a boring villain too obsessed with being a puppet without strings, way too long without keeping a good pace, way too much Buffy Speak and jokes makes the tone of the movie really weird, way too many characters makes the movie cluttered and to many subplots are running at once. Main pros are Hawkeye finally getting good character development, the action is good if a bit busy, Serkis one scene is great and someone actually dies for real.

I'm the harshest critic Superhero movies will ever get because I care for great movies, comics and just stories in general. Getting a 5/5 is almost impossible on my Scale. Most movies everyone else calls perfect I call a 4 or a 4,5.

Thoughts:

  • Quicksilver made zero impression on me and I didn't feel a thing when he bit the bullet.
  • They call people like the twins "Enhanced".
  • Turn every time Ultron makes a strings reference into a drinking game.
  • The scepter had the Mind Stone(Yellow)which is now in the vision so Thanos will HAVE to come too Earth at some point. Soul Stone is probably in Adam Warlock's face like in the comics so we will see it in Gotg1. Time Stone is the only one missing now(Mind was in the scepter, Power was in the Orb, Reality is the collapsed Aether, Space is in the Cosmic Cube, Soul is most likely with Warlock and Time we have no ideas on where it is)
  • Thanos goes "I will have to deal with this myself" in the stinger and grabs his Gauntlet that has no Stones. Did he have some kind of influence on Ultron and is angry that he failed? Who knows!
  • Ultron loses most of the "robotic" filter on his voice after his first few scenes. The vision has almost none of it.
  • They never actually call him The Vision as a name but they reference him as always being "the vision(that we had)" when talking about him.
  • Cho actually survived her encounter with Ultron and shows up in the ending.
  • Hawkeye is going to die in Civil War or IW. He has a family, Nat is their aunt and everyone will be sad when he dies.
  • Someone said that from what we know of MCU!Wanda's powerset she sounds more like a fusion of Jean Grey and Susan Storm than Wanda Maximoff. This is pretty much correct. She throws a few bolts and shockwaves in the final battle but she mostly uses her mind ability and forcefields.
  • Really tired of SLJ. He should have died in WS.
  • Ultron and the vision look really off when they stand still and the background isn't CGI. Hopefully the vision will look better in the next one.
  • The Widow/Hulk romance is the biggest pace breaker in the whole movie. It feels really weird. Oh btw, Widow is sterile due to the final test of the Red Room and brings it up when Banner starts talking about not wanting to have kids.
  • The New Avengers are Cap, Widow, Wanda, War Machine, Falcon, the vision and I think I caught a glimpse of Clint IIRC but it might have just been a random extra in the background.
  • Thor goes off to figure out who the man behind the man is, Tony pretty much retires, Hulk is in hiding and Clint gets a new kid.
  • I felt bored 1 hour into the movie and actually wanted to leave after the next half hour. This movie has some major problems with the presentation etc
  • Much like Superman in Mo S, Iron Man tries to get the fight with the Hulk out of the city. Much like Superman he fails.
  • This is the first time in a while that I've seen people leave a movie when there is an hour left of it.
  • Thor's sub plot is really quick: Dream>Leave>Selvig>Cave>Dream more>Knows about the Stones. After he meets Selvig it takes like 3 minutes to wrap his sub plot up. Hel is mentioned a lot by Dream!Heimdall and Thor so we can probably expect a visit there in his movie.
  • There are way way way way too many jokes in this movie. It makes sense in the intro but not in the entire rest of the movie.
  • The jokes about Cap being old fashioned are getting old.

Man, I must sleep on this movie before I think about it more. I'm pretty disappointed right now.

edited 23rd Apr '15 12:07:27 AM by LordofLore

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#31174: Apr 22nd 2015 at 8:30:03 AM

[up]Walking with Hill unless it was another random asian woman.

edited 22nd Apr '15 8:44:48 AM by LordofLore

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#31175: Apr 22nd 2015 at 8:57:58 AM

[up][up]Yeah. He didn't seem particularly close minded or overly religions in the Avengers. He was just reassuring Natasha by pointing out the Asgardians are not actually gods and, so, he would be able to deal with them. It is not even like he was wrong. Thor isn't a god.

Not sure that I agree. There's enough evidence in the movies to show the Asgardians aren't just merely aliens. Loki and Freyga's illusions, the enchantment Odin places on Mjolnir, Heimdall's ability to see across the realms.


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