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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#30951: Apr 17th 2015 at 5:09:32 PM

He sounds like he's too big a name to be doing this.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#30952: Apr 17th 2015 at 7:06:02 PM

THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE A SPIDER-GWEN MOVIE.

...is Spider Gwen really popular or something?

The only point of reference I have is a Wikipedia page and an episode of the Ultimate Spiderman. I remember reading a comment from the creator/writer/artist of that story saying she would probably be a Fan Favorite.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#30953: Apr 17th 2015 at 7:25:19 PM

She didn't exist yet, but she is one of the most popular characters to come out of Spider-Verse. It helped that she debuted at a time when Emma Stone made Gwen Stacy hugely popular and there was now vocal backlash to her cinematic and comic book death.

edited 17th Apr '15 7:25:42 PM by Tuckerscreator

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#30955: Apr 17th 2015 at 8:37:49 PM

I think the difference in the reception is in both Avengers films, we see the heroes actively working to rescue civilians, whereas people really disliked that Superman just seemed more "PUNCHY PUNCHY SMASHY SMASHY!", to the point where people now joke about him being a sociopath.

I've seen arguments excuse WHY he couln't help people or stop the fight but I do think making sure to show the heroes trying to save people was a smarter move.

Note that it's not JUST a DC thing either. I remember at least one or two pieces complaining about the freeway fight scene in Winter Soldier, because they reasoned a LOT of innocent people likely died or got really badly hurt, and the only who seems to do anything to actually help out civilians is Black Widow.

Though in AOU of course they've hinted there are serious consequences for the Hulkbuster fight.

edited 17th Apr '15 8:40:40 PM by comicwriter

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#30957: Apr 17th 2015 at 9:51:34 PM

Finished watching Daredevil just now.

Damn good ending. grin

Sucks to see Owlsley die the way he did, but overall still damn good. grin

My only real complaints? No Stan Lee cameo and no Stinger where Matt meets whoever's the director of SHIELD who wants to talk to him regarding "The Defender Initiative".

Also, there's no telling if there'll be a season 2 or not.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#30958: Apr 17th 2015 at 10:09:33 PM

There was a Stan Lee cameo, actually. In Episode 13, when we have that first-person perspective of Detective Hoffman walking into the station, there's what appears to be a wanted poster of him on the wall behind the desk. Not an in-person cameo, but neat nonetheless.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#30960: Apr 18th 2015 at 2:59:21 AM

Good god, why on earth do you want to break the "Stan Lee" streak. No comic book creator, maker, artist, show director, or actor I know of, other than Christopher Reeves, has ever done that - and he didn't take a "god" role either, just a Mythology Gag role in Small Ville.

“Exactly,” said Whedon. “What a hero does is not just beat up the bad guy—a hero saves the people.”

"Ha, suck it DC!"

On one hand, I see the irony. Marvel is typically the Darker and Edgier side of the street compared to DC. Superman is the Invincible Hero, portrayed very much so in Man Of Steel. He should be saving people with his abilities. The Avengers, meanwhile, consist of a Norse god, 2 secret agents, a WWII soldier, a former weapons-dealer turned playboy scientist, and another scientist with the back itch from hell - whose alter-ego is the embodiment of Uncontrollable Rage.

There are several negative, morally gray hero tropes attached to the latter group - Stark even says, "If we can't defend the Earth, we'll avenge it." Yet, the Avengers are shown saving people, being heroic,while Superman is seen as mostly unrepentant for the damage he caused by the end, outside of killing Zod (a somewhat anti-heroic image itself) to protect those civilians.

On the other hand, granted, Superman had a far worse situation to deal with, where the aliens were so powerful he was the only one who could do anything about them. In addition, his film was a rebooted origin story, where the hero is "allowed" to make mistakes because they're just starting out, whereas most of the Avengers were already established.

Superman did not have a team, but shouldn't his powers [All of the Avengers combined] have made him more than capable of saving people? Couldn't he have flown Zod into the air instead of snapping his neck, would that have caused more collateral damage? Arguable.

But then, I'm not in the "Man Of Steel was too dark and edgy" group. Realistic or overly gray takes on superheroes don't bother me as long as you build a comic book universe around them and don't isolate them from the rest of the world.

edited 18th Apr '15 3:53:40 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#30961: Apr 18th 2015 at 5:51:06 AM

If Zod was not a military trained Kryptonian and Clark a seasoned veteran and it ended with Clark snapping Zod's neck, I can see where people would have a problem. Also, I really hate the "Oh, we're the Avengers/Guardians of the Galaxy and we saved more people than Superman did" comparison.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#30962: Apr 18th 2015 at 6:47:16 AM

So anybody think Fisk's time in prison is what will lead him to being referred to as The Kingpin?

And now with Ben Urich out of the picture, might we see his nephew, Phil Urich continuing the legacy left by his uncle, albeit at a certain newspaper joint called The Daily Bugle?

Also, it was great to see Foggy becoming the Secret-Keeper for Matt.

edited 18th Apr '15 6:47:41 AM by TargetmasterJoe

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#30963: Apr 18th 2015 at 6:47:35 AM

OK, maybe posting that was a bad idea.

I do think that that is Joss's own philosophy for superheroics than a direct shot at DC, by the way.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30964: Apr 18th 2015 at 6:51:41 AM

I'm really sick of people complaining about all the destruction in Man of Steel considering it looks like it's going to be a major plot point in Batman vs Superman, not just something the writers are glossing over.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#30965: Apr 18th 2015 at 6:59:32 AM

If there's one way Man of Steel has irrevocably ruined online discussions about superhero films, that would be it.

People have a right to how they feel about it, but we're way past the point where we can talk rationally about it. Dawn of Justice will deal with the toll, Civil War will deal with the toll, let's just move on.

I apologize for bringing it up.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30966: Apr 18th 2015 at 7:11:20 AM

Do we need to even show realistic consequences to every single large-scale superhero battle? I thought comic book movies were supposed to be fun. The next time aliens attack New York, why can't we just have Damage Control make a cameo cleaning it up, and then move on?

edited 18th Apr '15 7:14:57 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#30967: Apr 18th 2015 at 8:09:03 AM

Good god, why on earth do you want to break the "Stan Lee" streak. No comic book creator, maker, artist, show director, or actor I know of, other than Christopher Reeves, has ever done that - and he didn't take a "god" role either, just cameos.
I mean there is the part where any claim that Lee is a "comic book creator" is, if not dubious, at least comes at the expense of a lot of different comic artists.

As for Man of Steel, it's not fun, frankly. The rest of the movie is far too dour for me, at least, to suddenly start enjoying it when we get to the action bits, as though I can just sort of decide to forget that Supes just hallucinated himself drowning in a sea of skeletal corpses. The movie convinces us that destroying the planet would be a seriously villainous thing to do and then shows the hero knocking down skyscrapers like it's no big deal.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30968: Apr 18th 2015 at 8:46:36 AM

[up]So you complain about a movie not being fun, but then you complain when movies have Stan Lee cameos in them?

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#30969: Apr 18th 2015 at 8:57:22 AM

My complaint isn't that Man of Steel isn't fun, it's that it wants us to enjoy its hero doing something it's firmly established is deeply awful.

Stan Lee is kind of a terrible human being and a fantastic self-promoter, and the fact that Marvel can't excise him without looking like douchebags troubles me.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#30970: Apr 18th 2015 at 9:08:24 AM

Stan Lee is undeniably a comic book creator. He didn't do it alone and his partners deserve as much credit as him (and sometimes more, depending on the hero), but claiming he's just a scammer self-promoter is blatant Historical Villain Upgrade

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#30971: Apr 18th 2015 at 9:15:47 AM

[up]Whose fault is it, that his partners don't get as much credit as him, do you think—to the point where they're not even credited on some books they created with him? Who's idea was it to put "Stan Lee Presents" on books that had nothing to do with him? Who, over the course of fifty years, has made it impossible to hear the words "Marvel Comics" without immediately thinking "Stan Lee", while the general public has no idea who Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Don Heck, Gene Colan, Bill Everett, or Larry Leiber are?

Hint: it was Stan Lee.

Plus, y'know, he pioneered the "Marvel Method". That thing where you hand the artist a loose outline, let them do whatever, and then fill in the dialogue bubbles later. Who does the most work in that relationship, do you think?

edited 18th Apr '15 9:20:44 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#30972: Apr 18th 2015 at 9:33:37 AM

The general public seemed aware enough of folks like Kirby that when Marvel did that story where the Fantastic Four went to heaven, it was Jack Kirby who was God, not Stan Lee. And that story was was only ten years ago.

There's no denying that they certainly did scam him in many ways (as DC has done with Alan Moore), but they haven't denied his influence.

edited 18th Apr '15 9:33:56 AM by Tuckerscreator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#30973: Apr 18th 2015 at 9:37:47 AM

[up]The general public was reading comics ten years ago? I mean, that was 2005. The industry's been pandering neigh-exclusively to the existing base since at least the nineties.

To say nothing about the fact that Lee's influence on actual content had long since petered out by then. Somehow I doubt Kirby would've been God if Lee was still in charge at the time.

Plus that's still ignoring the plight of the other five people I mentioned—and hell, I kept it just to people Lee had created multiple characters with, I'm sure if you widen the focus the list gets much longer.

edited 18th Apr '15 9:41:32 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#30974: Apr 18th 2015 at 9:40:33 AM

Er, no one wants to talk about what a potential season 2 of Daredevil could cover?

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free

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